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  1.    01 Mar 2017 #111
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    Nothing wrong with that.

    However the whole point of this thread is failure to restore. Macrium tells you if it has a VSS error during saving (when it makes the snapshot). As does Windows when you make a restore point. In both cases this is during the saving. No-one has a problem with VSS except for a small number using odd file system drivers.

    The issue here is restoring from a Windows restore point not saving using VSS.

    Windows doesn't use VSS when restoring (it reboots to remove locks while you do it) and it has nothing to do with VSS at all. Similarly when you boot into Macrium recovery all locks are removed as it runs from RAM.

    I don't think you proved anything here except Macrium works which we already knew. You don't need to run it from rescue stick (except for restore if you haven't made a dual boot for it)

    An interesting question is why MS turned off System Restore. It has always been a bit less than reliable. Perhaps that is why...
    Everything you state is true and interesting. My purpose was to reassure people that creating images with Macrium still works since earlier in this thread there was some speculation about creating images with 3rd party software.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    01 Mar 2017 #112
    Join Date : Oct 2016
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts : 448
    Win10 Home x64 - 1709

    In case I didn't it make it clear ... I'm NOT recommending what I did as fix for the System Restore Fail.

    The DOMAIN\USERS with the Condition Exists Win://SYSAPPID is suppose to be there. If your going to start messing with permissions on the WindowsApps folder and sub folders, I STRONGLY suggest you get real familiar with ICACLS first. Back the current permissions to a file so can restore them in case you break something (which is very likely when messing with permissions)
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    01 Mar 2017 #113
    Join Date : Feb 2017
    Posts : 37
    Windows 10 1607

    Ix07,
    I have recently made comment to a highly qualified, world class, technical advisor that System Restore is at best unreliable. There has been several instances over the last decade where it would have been good if it had worked and it simply didn't. I had always adopted the attitude that it was just broken and you shouldn't rely on it.
    The only reason I am participating in this discussion is due to the fact that I was more or less forced to upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7. In doing so I immediately encountered significant operational issues and problems in loading programs. The best and easiest way around these issues was to use System Restore, which is it's intended use. Surely we could expect MS to have something as basic and long serving as System Restore working properly by now.

    I could provide you with a list of problems so far encountered in the attempted use of Windows 10 but that is outside the scope of this thread.

    SFE, I'll have to try turning the radio on at my place. Perhaps my computer will find it more relaxing as well.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    01 Mar 2017 #114
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    I think System Restore does work most of the time. And let's not forget that when MS pushes out a critical update the first thing that the installer does is set a restore point. If MS had no faith in it then why would they do that? It now appears that the real problem isn't with system restore its with the failed update of the Get Office app that was deployed on 2/17 and/or 2/17.

    BTW glivo, thank you taking part in these discussions and helping to find out what the problem is.
    Bob
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    01 Mar 2017 #115
    Join Date : Feb 2017
    Posts : 37
    Windows 10 1607

    SF409,
    MS may have faith in System Restore. As is evident here, and from numerous personal past experiences however, I do not share this confidence. I am of the opinion that this problem will obtain the required attentions from MS, as we should expect from them. The unfortunate thing about it though, is the inconvenience and loss of amenity endured by end users in the interim.

    For each individual within the couple of hundred or so readers of this topic here and on other forums, who are aware of this issue, there are thousands of users who have no idea their system is not working as it should. For the majority, this will be irrelevant and may be fixed before they even knew it was broken. However for some, myself included, this has been and will be an unnecessary inconvenience while for others it could be a disaster.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    01 Mar 2017 #116
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by glivo View Post
    SF409,
    MS may have faith in System Restore. As is evident here, and from numerous personal past experiences however, I do not share this confidence. I am of the opinion that this problem will obtain the required attentions from MS, as we should expect from them. The unfortunate thing about it though, is the inconvenience and loss of amenity endured by end users in the interim.

    For each individual within the couple of hundred or so readers of this topic here and on other forums, who are aware of this issue, there are thousands of users who have no idea their system is not working as it should. For the majority, this will be irrelevant and may be fixed before they even knew it was broken. However for some, myself included, this has been and will be an unnecessary inconvenience while for others it could be a disaster.
    I am and have been discouraged by the ongoing issues with Windows 10. It never appears to get any better. We move from one crisis to another. I think MS has lost its way. It is very discouraging. I'm tired if having to tinker and fix just to get close to a reliable OS.

    I urge you and whoever else reads this to go to the start menu and click the Feedback Hub and voice your opinion about this issue. The more people do this the sooner it will get fixed.
    Bob
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    01 Mar 2017 #117
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 112
    WINDOWS 10 PRO

    Quote Originally Posted by lx07 View Post
    I don't think you proved anything here except Macrium works which we already knew. You don't need to run it from rescue stick (except for restore if you haven't made a dual boot for it)

    An interesting question is why MS turned off System Restore. It has always been a bit less than reliable. Perhaps that is why...
    IMO, System Restore plays an immense role in facilitating system integrity.

    In the past years I wouldn't argue about the sketchy reliability of System Restore, but I use it regularly, and haven't had a problem with it for quite some time, until now of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFine409 View Post
    It now appears that the real problem isn't with system restore its with the failed update of the Get Office app that was deployed on 2/17 and/or 2/17
    Quote Originally Posted by glivo View Post
    Results.
    Performing the WindowsApps rename fix, instead of deleting it this time, once again resulted in System Restore operating correctly. I have been able to install the remaining updates and flip back and forth between Restore Points without issue.

    At this point I am done with it. My testing shows that:

    It is update KB3213986 that causes the problem to occur in the first instance..
    Hi Guys,

    I performed the "fixes". On separate occasions, I was able both to successfully rename and delete WindowsApps. But can I assume in your case that a new WindowsApps directory was recreated after reboot? Because in my case, it was not created, so not only was System Restore still broken, but my apps wont load as well.

    I have several Macrium created images, including a 2/21/17 image of a media creation tool Windows 10 Pro installation with only windows updates included, imaged directly after creation.

    When this image is restored, System Restore works. Last time I used that image, it was ok the first 2 or 3 times I tested system restore. But after that, it went bad. I restored the image several times, and the same behavior occurred.

    Maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but is the culprit KB3213986 or Get Office app?

    KB3213986 came out on January 10, 2017.

    When the problem first happened, I initially blamed the usual suspect, windows updates. But since my macrium image was created 2/17, and KB3213986 (and all other updates for thet matter) was a part of the windows updates package at the time, System Restore still worked.

    So 'Im thinking of restoring that fresh install, and uninstalling Get Office before it gets a chance to do its damage, if in fact that is the root of the problem.

    Before I do, what do you guys think?

    BTW, if my experience is correct, if you want to test on your own, anyone could create an image of a fresh install that has system restore operating properly before the bad stuff gets in the way.

    thanks for the education.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    01 Mar 2017 #118
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by kitpzyxmsir View Post
    IMO, System Restore plays an immense role in facilitating system integrity.

    In the past years I wouldn't argue about the sketchy reliability of System Restore, but I use it regularly, and haven't had a problem with it for quite some time, until now of course.




    Hi Guys,

    I performed the "fixes". On separate occasions, I was able both to successfully rename and delete WindowsApps. But can I assume in your case that a new WindowsApps directory was recreated after reboot? Because in my case, it was not created, so not only was System Restore still broken, but my apps wont load as well.

    I have several Macrium created images, including a 2/21/17 image of a media creation tool Windows 10 Pro installation with only windows updates included, imaged directly after creation.

    When this image is restored, System Restore works. Last time I used that image, it was ok the first 2 or 3 times I tested system restore. But after that, it went bad. I restored the image several times, and the same behavior occurred.

    Maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but is the culprit KB3213986 or Get Office app?

    KB3213986 came out on January 10, 2017.

    When the problem first happened, I initially blamed the usual suspect, windows updates. But since my macrium image was created 2/17, and KB3213986 (and all other updates for thet matter) was a part of the windows updates package at the time, System Restore still worked.

    So 'Im thinking of restoring that fresh install, and uninstalling Get Office before it gets a chance to do its damage, if in fact that is the root of the problem.

    Before I do, what do you guys think?

    BTW, if my experience is correct, if you want to test on your own, anyone could create an image of a fresh install that has system restore operating properly before the bad stuff gets in the way.

    thanks for the education.
    the problem is the Get Office app and not the KB. No mater what you do the app will eventually reinstall and trash restore. Just leave everything alone and MS will eventually fix it with a cumulative update or a corrected app. Make backup images with a Macrium (free or paid version) or another similar program. And to answer you question about renaming WindowsApps it will not be recreated so avoid doing that.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    01 Mar 2017 #119
    Join Date : Oct 2016
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts : 448
    Win10 Home x64 - 1709

    It appears we have 4 options to deal with the system restore issue.

    1. Wait for M$ to fix it.

    2. You use Office 2016/365 - See option 1
    a. I'm assuming it uses the MicrosoftOfficeHub folder

    3. You have a restore point prior to 2-15-2107
    a. Disconnect from Internet - Make sure Get Office App doesn't get updated after restore
    b. Do the WindowsApps folder rename or delete
    c. Do a system restore to a point prior to 2-15-2017
    d. Uninstall / Remove Get Office App - It shouldn't update if not installed.

    4. You don't have a restore point prior 2-15-2017
    a. Uninstall / Remove Get Office App
    b. In the WindowsApps folder find and delete the 'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe' folder
    Note: That folder can be a PIA to delete

    Note: Do NOT rename or delete the WindowsApps folder and just reboot, it will NOT get recreated. The whole point of deleting the WindowsApps folder is so system restore will work and restore the WindowsApps folder back to a time prior to Get Office App update.

    Note: Option 2 & 3 .. I'm assuming you have the Get Office App installed. Even if you have uninstalled it check option 4b.

    Cross your fingers and hold your breath, that system restore will work
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  10.    01 Mar 2017 #120
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 109
    Windows 10

    What a mess. Thank goodness for Macrium.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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