Windows 10: Macrium Reflect Backup Failures Solved

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  1. Posts : 11,223
    W10Prox64
       29 Aug 2016 #101

    DavidY said: View Post
    This says to me that the issue is something on the C: drive; either a file with strange properties (like those Reparse Points mentioned by RKILL) or a file or Registry key which is being locked somehow by an application or process, which VSS isn't coping with.
    I think it could be that reparse point.

    DavidY said: View Post
    Remind me - did you try the option to 'Exclude all VSS writers to resolve specific snapshot failures' in Macrium? (I've an idea it was tried and didn't help.)
    I know we did try that once; I did not specify to try that on this test run.

    I am thinking, I would like to see the list of installed programs, (Ccleaner), just to see if anything stands out, and a winver screenshot. Then, perhaps we should look at a repair install with an in-place upgrade. Your thoughts @DavidY?
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  2. Posts : 11,223
    W10Prox64
       29 Aug 2016 #102

    Not Myself said: View Post
    Here is the screen shot. The Seagate external drive is still installed; I downloaded Seagate's disk tools, tried to use its disk wiping module, which failed; I suspect that it is outdated, so I will find another program for this, as I intend to give the drive away.

    Attachment 98640
    Why not use BleachBit? Hillary swears by it! j/k
    Actually, there is a program I use called FileShredder, which has different options of cleaning algorithms, one of which is the Gutman algorithm, which is quite robust.

    There's also DBAN, but I've never used it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    30 Aug 2016 #103

    simrick said: View Post
    I think it could be that reparse point.
    I don't think it's that any more.

    I didn't like the Reparse Points which were 'Unknown Target'. But, for whatever reason, they seem to have disappeared now, and it's normal to have some Reparse Points.
    For instance C:\Users -> C:\Documents and Settings is normal on everyone's PCs, and VSS and Macrium cope OK.
    Go to your root directory on your C: drive, type DIR /AL /S and I bet you'll find some <JUNCTION> entries in the results.

    Also, if it's a particular file or folder entry on the drive itself which was failing, then that might also have prevented the backup from the Rescue Media. But that didn't fail.

    So my feeling is it's a clash on a file or Registry entry which Windows or some other software is keeping open while Windows is running.

    Or it could be a bug in VSS itself - there was a recent thread from another member who was having trouble with Macrium and Windows built in System Image Backup, and Macrium support came back to him saying they thought it was a VSS bug.

    Actually that triggers a thought- what would happen if you tried to make a backup using Windows' built-in System Image feature? It insists on creating a backup in the root folder so I'd use that spare Seagate disk.

    I don't think it will actually work , but maybe the error message will be helpful?

    Also, another question - when it fails, how quickly does it fail? Does it fail immediately, or does it spend some time and then trip up over whatever it is.

    simrick said: View Post
    I am thinking, I would like to see the list of installed programs, (Ccleaner), just to see if anything stands out, and a winver screenshot.
    If we had the list of Programs and Features from Control Panel, sorted in Date order, and the same for "View Installed Updates", it would be good to see, and it might also be good to see if any software or update was installed around the time it started failing.

    simrick said: View Post
    Then, perhaps we should look at a repair install with an in-place upgrade. Your thoughts @DavidY?
    I did an in-place upgrade/repair recently to try to repair a problem on my old laptop; my feeling is it made one or two things worse on the driver front. My webcam stopped working and I couldn't fix it - I'll need to clean install it to fix it properly I think. So I have slightly mixed feelings about them. But this is an OLD laptop.

    The other option I came across is to download the Windows SDK, because this contains a tool called VSSTrace which might give more information on what's happening in VSS. But I think that's a hard-core developer tool, and there's no guarantee any of us would understand the results. If we did though, there's more chance of finding the issue for future reference in case it comes back.

    The Repair Install might be the simplest option to try next though.

    simrick said: View Post
    Why not use BleachBit? Hillary swears by it! j/k
    Actually, there is a program I use called FileShredder, which has different options of cleaning algorithms, one of which is the Gutman algorithm, which is quite robust.

    There's also DBAN, but I've never used it.
    Yet again, I reach for the Sysinternals toolbox, and use SDelete. I don't know if it has the latest algorithms but I suspect you'd have to be up against serious forensic data analysts/code-breakers for that to matter. It also has a mode to zero out free space, which is very handy when trying to shrink virtual disks.

    But to be honest I would keep the external drive in any case. Unless it's known to be failing, it's always handy to have some spare disk space around.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    30 Aug 2016 #104

    =DavidY;794243]I don't think it's that any more.

    I didn't like the Reparse Points which were 'Unknown Target'. But, for whatever reason, they seem to have disappeared now, and it's normal to have some Reparse Points.
    For instance C:\Users -> C:\Documents and Settings is normal on everyone's PCs, and VSS and Macrium cope OK.
    Go to your root directory on your C: drive, type DIR /AL /S and I bet you'll find some <JUNCTION> entries in the results.
    I hope I got this correctly; the Snagit scroll feature indicated that it was working, but did not, so I had to take three shots and paste them together.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Junctions.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	1.28 MB 
ID:	99008

    Also, if it's a particular file or folder entry on the drive itself which was failing, then that might also have prevented the backup from the Rescue Media. But that didn't fail.

    So my feeling is it's a clash on a file or Registry entry which Windows or some other software is keeping open while Windows is running.

    Or it could be a bug in VSS itself - there was a recent thread from another member who was having trouble with Macrium and Windows built in System Image Backup, and Macrium support came back to him saying they thought it was a VSS bug.

    Actually that triggers a thought- what would happen if you tried to make a backup using Windows' built-in System Image feature? It insists on creating a backup in the root folder so I'd use that spare Seagate disk.
    I don't think it will actually work , but maybe the error message will be helpful?
    Worked correctly.

    Also, another question - when it fails, how quickly does it fail? Does it fail immediately, or does it spend some time and then trip up over whatever it is.
    Fails nearly instaneously, if you are referring to Macrium; if to System Image, see reply above.

    If we had the list of Programs and Features from Control Panel, sorted in Date order, and the same for "View Installed Updates", it would be good to see, and it might also be good to see if any software or update was installed around the time it started failing.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Programs_By_Date.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	1.68 MB 
ID:	99013

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Installed_Updates.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	127.6 KB 
ID:	99012

    I did an in-place upgrade/repair recently to try to repair a problem on my old laptop; my feeling is it made one or two things worse on the driver front. My webcam stopped working and I couldn't fix it - I'll need to clean install it to fix it properly I think. So I have slightly mixed feelings about them. But this is an OLD laptop.

    The other option I came across is to download the Windows SDK, because this contains a tool called VSSTrace which might give more information on what's happening in VSS. But I think that's a hard-core developer tool, and there's no guarantee any of us would understand the results. If we did though, there's more chance of finding the issue for future reference in case it comes back.

    The Repair Install might be the simplest option to try next though.

    Yet again, I reach for the Sysinternals toolbox, and use SDelete. I don't know if it has the latest algorithms but I suspect you'd have to be up against serious forensic data analysts/code-breakers for that to matter. It also has a mode to zero out free space, which is very handy when trying to shrink virtual disks.

    But to be honest I would keep the external drive in any case. Unless it's known to be failing, it's always handy to have some spare disk space around.
    One success today: FedEx did not show up yesterday until around 1800 local; the delivery vehicle broke down some twenty miles (32 km) from the FedEx facility, so the driver had to wait until a tow truck brought a replacement, then the FexEx driver had to move all the packages, and then resume his route.

    I could tell as soon as I opened the box that this, the third shipment, contained the proper part. This morning, using the Repair Manual, I opened up the computer, removed the suspect USB cable, whereupon I found that the manual did not state how to remove the cable from its housing. A bit of pondering led me to get a small flat-blade screwdriver,and bend the two metal prongs on the metal housing up just enough to clear the depressions on the sides of the cable, depressions I could see on the replacement cable.

    I put the new cable into the housing, bent the prongs downwards to engage the depressions, threaded the cable through the chassis hole for the housing, replaced the small screw that attaches the housing to the chassis, and connected the cable to the motherboard, then put the machine back together.

    Hoping for the best, after attaching the various cables, I turned the computer on, and was pleased to see it boot properly. Once the startup procedure had progressed sufficiently, with some trepidation I plugged a mouse into the left-hand USB port, and was pleased to see that the sensor light on the bottom was lit up; repeated the process with the right-hand port, and declared that at least one problem had been solved.

    To celebrate, I put on my work clothes, went outside, and stacked a cord or more of piñon pine.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    30 Aug 2016 #105

    Not Myself said: View Post
    I hope I got this correctly; the Snagit scroll feature indicated that it was working, but did not, so I had to take three shots and paste them together.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Junctions.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	1.28 MB 
ID:	99008
    Thanks for that.
    Not that it was what I was looking to find, but I do notice that it complains some folder names are too long, which might be significant. On the other hand that could be a red herring because the offline backup worked, and those folders may not be in the scope of the failing System Restore in any case.

    Not Myself said: View Post
    Worked correctly.
    So Microsoft's System Restore won't backup part of the disk, but System Image will backup the full disk - but Macrium can't. I wasn't expecting that.
    Interesting although I've no idea what this means.

    Not Myself said: View Post
    Fails nearly instaneously, if you are referring to Macrium; if to System Image, see reply above.
    Thanks (I was referring to Macrium).
    Not Myself said: View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Programs_By_Date.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	1.68 MB 
ID:	99013
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Installed_Updates.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	127.6 KB 
ID:	99012
    Ah I'd forgotten the AU was on there so there would be hardly any updates.

    There's a lot of software on there which I don't recognise. Maybe @simrick will have some ideas based on that list?

    One I did recognise is TrueCrypt - is that being used actively?

    Not Myself said: View Post
    To celebrate, I put on my work clothes, went outside, and stacked a cord or more of piñon pine.
    Sounds much more productive than battling computers!
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 11,223
    W10Prox64
       30 Aug 2016 #106

    That's great news about your USB "adventure"!

    RE: Reparse Points
    I know there are normally a bunch of reparse points/junctions in a Windows OS. I think, (and I am not positive), but I think, that RKILL only lists those which are not necessarily normal, or appear to be a problem. But, the Windows Backup function completed successfully, so maybe the one that's left is not a problem.

    RE: Installed Programs @Not Myself - if you would, please open Ccleaner, navigate to the installed programs, and then click on the bottom right-hand button which says "Save to text file", and upload that file here. Even though the list will not be sorted by date, the screen shots are just too small for my old eyes.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ccleaner-installed-progs.PNG 
Views:	2 
Size:	70.9 KB 
ID:	99018


    RE: KB3176934 & KB3176936
    They don't appear to be related to our problem, but I'll defer to @DavidY's excellent evaluation of these.


    That's an odd way to celebrate....I think I'd prefer a beer!
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    31 Aug 2016 #107

    DavidY said: View Post
    Thanks for that.
    Not that it was what I was looking to find, but I do notice that it complains some folder names are too long, which might be significant. On the other hand that could be a red herring because the offline backup worked, and those folders may not be in the scope of the failing System Restore in any case.

    So Microsoft's System Restore won't backup part of the disk, but System Image will backup the full disk - but Macrium can't. I wasn't expecting that.
    Interesting although I've no idea what this means.

    Thanks (I was referring to Macrium).
    Ah I'd forgotten the AU was on there so there would be hardly any updates.

    There's a lot of software on there which I don't recognise. Maybe @simrick will have some ideas based on that list?

    One I did recognise is TrueCrypt - is that being used actively?

    Sounds much more productive than battling computers!
    I know that TrueCrypt is deprecated, but as I have only added one file this year, giving a total of perhaps ten files there, I see no reason to bother stop using it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    31 Aug 2016 #108

    simrick said: View Post
    That's great news about your USB "adventure"!

    RE: Reparse Points
    I know there are normally a bunch of reparse points/junctions in a Windows OS. I think, (and I am not positive), but I think, that RKILL only lists those which are not necessarily normal, or appear to be a problem. But, the Windows Backup function completed successfully, so maybe the one that's left is not a problem.

    RE: Installed Programs @Not Myself - if you would, please open Ccleaner, navigate to the installed programs, and then click on the bottom right-hand button which says "Save to text file", and upload that file here. Even though the list will not be sorted by date, the screen shots are just too small for my old eyes.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ccleaner-installed-progs.PNG 
Views:	2 
Size:	70.9 KB 
ID:	99018


    RE: KB3176934 & KB3176936
    They don't appear to be related to our problem, but I'll defer to @DavidY's excellent evaluation of these.


    That's an odd way to celebrate....I think I'd prefer a beer!
    I posted in that fashion, in order to keep my program list secret, and did wonder if, even after I greatly increased the size of the screen shot, if the resultant file would be readable.

    Code:
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    Voice Recorder    Microsoft Corporation    25-Aug-16        10.1608.2211.0
    VueScan x64        04-Aug-16        
    WD Drive Utilities    Western Digital Technologies, Inc.    26-Aug-16    67.0 MB    1.3.2.2
    WD Quick View    Western Digital Technologies, Inc.    25-Aug-16    26.3 MB    2.4.16.16
    WD Security    Western Digital Technologies, Inc.    26-Aug-16    92.8 MB    1.3.1.2
    WD SmartWare    Western Digital Technologies, Inc.    30-Aug-16    72.6 MB    2.4.16.16
    WD SmartWare Installer    Western Digital Technologies, Inc.    30-Aug-16    113 MB    2.4.16.16
    Weather    Microsoft Corporation    23-Aug-16        4.13.47.0
    Windows Driver Package - ESCORT Inc. (WinUSB) MyDeviceClass  (03/01/2016 )    ESCORT Inc.    20-Aug-16        03/01/2016 
    Windows Driver Package - ESCORT, Inc. (usbser) Ports  (04/24/2013 1.0.0.0)    ESCORT, Inc.    20-Aug-16        04/24/2013 1.0.0.0
    WinPatrol    Ruiware    10-Jun-16    6.12 MB    33.6.2015.18
    WinRAR 5.40 (64-bit)    win.rar GmbH    19-Aug-16    5.73 MB    5.40.0
    WordPerfect Office IFilter 32-bit    Corel Corporation    27-Jul-16    584 KB    1.5
    WordPerfect Office IFilter 64-bit    Corel Corporation    27-Jul-16    784 KB    1.5
    WordPerfect Office X7 - Extras    Corel Corporation    22-Nov-15    762 MB    1.00.0000
    WordPerfect Office X8    Corel Corporation    04-Aug-16    44.9 MB    18.0.0.200
    WordPerfect Office X8 - Extras    Corel Corporation    27-Jul-16    886 MB    1.00.0000
    Xbox    Microsoft Corporation    27-Aug-16        19.20.24006.0
    Xbox Identity Provider    Microsoft Corporation    05-Aug-16        11.19.19003.0
    I did not know that I had Xbox programs installed; I wonder if I can find a use for them.
    Macrium Reflect Backup  Failures Attached Files
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    31 Aug 2016 #109

    I have forgotten to mention that all of the installed programs, other than updates, were present before the Macrium, and possibly Restore Point, problem(s) began. I put it that way, given my belief that the Macrium difficulty is directly related to the failure of Restore Point, admitting as always that I have no proof of that conspiracy theory.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 26,384
    Windows10Pro 64Bit - Build 14393.1198
       31 Aug 2016 #110

    Not Myself said: View Post
    I have forgotten to mention that all of the installed programs, other than updates, were present before the Macrium, and possibly Restore Point, problem(s) began. I put it that way, given my belief that the Macrium difficulty is directly related to the failure of Restore Point, admitting as always that I have no proof of that conspiracy theory.
    I don't believe that is the case at all, I have used Macrium for a long time now, and it has never given me any problems, and has NO effect on Windows Restore Points. But ....you can always remove Macrium Reflect, and then see if your restore points magically work... My guess it is one of those long list of app's you do have installed, or a deleted app, that is still leaving parts of itself on your computer. But.....I'm sure simrick will help you find your problem. She is VERY good at this.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


 
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