Running Macrium destroys System Restore points

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  1. Posts : 395
    Windows 10
       #1

    Running Macrium destroys System Restore points


    Sorry for repeating a question I've asked here before, but I've still not been able to fix it.

    Before installing Macrium my restore points remained intact for as long as I wished or until storage capacity was reached, which was a matter of MONTHS. After installing Macrium they are all now destroyed every week when Macrium makes its scheduled full image. I simply want to know how to fix that, in terms as close to plain english as possible please.

    I find it hard to believe that this issue can be confined to me. I'd have expected some documented detailed steps, or perhaps even a one-click script to resolve it. But the explanations I've had from the Macrium support people are largely over my head and essentially say it's not a Macrium problem. I'll paste the last one verbatim here for those with a deeper technical know-how than mine:

    --------------------
    "Macrium Reflect has no knowledge or direct interaction with the Shadow Copy Diff area and it really is impossible to know precisely what decisions Windows has made regarding the data stored there. I can only speculate that as the oldest shadow, 'DataVolumeRollback' was created without using VSS Writers then this may lead to smaller diff area than shadows created with writers. The 'ClientAccessibleWriters' shadows appear to have been created more recently so the changes made since then may be small. Certain VSS Writers will cause the diff area to grow larger when the shadow is created and we don't know whether these were excluded from those shadows. All writers are included in a Reflect image so the temporary diff area used during image creation will likely be larger."
    --------------------

    Terry
    Intel Core i7 6700K (4.0GHz), 32 GB Win 10 Pro Version 1909 (OS Build 18363.900)
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 34,884
    Win 10 Pro (1903) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #2

    Forgive the obvious question- what happens if you manually create an image?

    I manually create differential images, and have daily restore points created, and note no issues.
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 395
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #3

    dalchina said:
    Forgive the obvious question- what happens if you manually create an image?

    I manually create differential images, and have daily restore points created, and note no issues.
    I’ll try that as soon as possible, although it will mean a bit of reading first.
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 17,612
    Win 10 Home 10.0.19044.1706 (x64) [21H2]
       #4

    Hi Terry

    With backup software, you will never need System Restore. System Restore "merges" the current state of the operating system with the Restore Point.

    Backup software "replaces" the current state of the operating system when you restore from a backup.

    The "reason" we use System Restore or backup software is to "undo" whatever harmful thing(s) have recently happened to the operating system.

    System Restore can only "undo" harmful changes to the OS about 60-70% of the time. Backup software on the other hand can "undo" any harmful changes to the OS, 99.99999999% of the time. With good backup software like Macrium Reflect, you don't "need" or want to be running System Restore.

    There is "nothing" System restore can do, that Macrium Reflect can't do. Further, Macrium can do so much more.

    Macrium Tips:

    1. ALWAYS make sure you have the bootable Macrium Reflect media (CD or USB), made and handy. It can restore from a backup, even when Windows won't boot.

    2. You don't need to keep a pile of backups. You will only need at most, 2-3 backups.

    3. Personally, I never use scheduled backups. I ONLY make backups when I know the OS is clean of infections, and of any corruption. With scheduled backups, your backup might be made and "have" infection or corruption, IN the backup.

    4. Lastly, while incremental or differential backups are "handy", they are very much LESS useful to you, than FULL OS Image backups. Both Incremental and differential backups, can have the same problem as scheduled backups.

    5. I only make a new FULL backup when I KNOW the OS is clean of infection and/or corruption. I always make a new FULL operating system backup, right before I do things like...

    a. Make any major changes to the OS, like installing new programs or drivers, which includes Windows Updates. (Normally they roll out the 2nd Tuesday of the month).
    b. Any time I plan on visiting any questionable websites.



    Short version... you are asking the wrong question. You should be asking, why the heck do I even NEED system restore, when I have backup software. The answer ofc is, you don't.

    Little backup software history of my own...
    I ran ONE original install of Win XP for 12 years, using only backup software.
    I ran ONE original install of Win 7 for 9 years, with only backup software.
    So far, I have been running and heavily tweaking (on the edge of disaster), Windows 10, for a little over one month. I have inadvertently created quite a few major OS corruptions, all of which Macrium Reflect could and did, easily repair, by restoring from a FULL backup image of the OS.

    At my worst and most foolish, I have NEVER been able to create a problem that Macrium Reflect (or other backup software) cannot fix.

    While this doesn't really answer your question, I hope I have shown you, that you really do not need System restore, ever again. This assumes you always run backup software.

    Backup software is like System Restore with super powers.

    I hope this helps.



    /e Also, I agree with Dalchina on this... manual FULL image backups are the way to go. I "think" your weekly backup schedule, is somehow "filling up" some system restore point repository.
    Both System Restore and backup software have some method of deleting old restore points or old backups.
    Last edited by Ghot; 07 Jul 2020 at 08:00.
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 34,884
    Win 10 Pro (1903) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #5

    Creating an image of a partition manually is fairly trivial- that's what you do anyway.

    If you've never created a differential image, that's different. The way I do it is to create a backup job when creating my first full image; thereafter creating a differential image is a matter of connecting the backup disk (which is always assigned the same drive letter because I set that via Disk Management) and clicking thus on the backup job:

    Running Macrium destroys System Restore points-untitled.png

    I have no reason to think that manually creating an image should any more or any less effect on your System Restore points. This is merely an experiment, as I've not heard of this problem before.

    @Ghot: System Restore (when it works) is great- and should never be compared to disk imaging as it addresses something quite different.

    The problem with restoring a disk image is that EVERYTHING on the partitions restored is replaced. That includes personal data, which System Restore never touches.

    I use both, and System Restore has proved useful once fairly recently.
      My Computers


  6. Posts : 17,612
    Win 10 Home 10.0.19044.1706 (x64) [21H2]
       #6

    This is how I have Macrium set, and how I use the program for EACH full backup I make...

    1. Click the Windows symbol in top left RED circle. It will auto select all the partitions you need to restore Windows fully.
    2. Choose the drive letter in the 2nd RED circle. I identify the backups by DATE. 3rd RED circle. Click "Next"
    3. RED circle in 2nd pic, is how I set the Retention Rules. Click "Next" and then "Finish"
    4. RED circle on 3rd pic... I uncheck the "Save backup and schedules as an XML file". (personal choice)
    5. Then click "OK".

    My total Windows 10 install is 27.0 GB. It take me under 2 minutes to make a backup. (Or restore from one).



    Link cause huge image: Imgur: The magic of the Internet



    Same image posted here...







    /edit ALL other settings left at default.

    - - - Updated - - -

    dalchina said:
    @Ghot: System Restore (when it works) is great- and should never be compared to disk imaging as it addresses something quite different.

    The problem with restoring a disk image is that EVERYTHING on the partitions restored is replaced. That includes personal data, which System Restore never touches.

    I use both, and System Restore has proved useful once fairly recently.
    I know.

    This is exactly WHY I only use the backup software, and always disable system restore. The personal data is totally unimportant to me. Ofc, I also export anything personal that is important, (like bookmarks, for ex.), before restoring from a backup. I specifically do not want any part of the OS retained, when I restore from a backup. (personal choice)

    So far, through 3 OS's over 20 years, I have NEVER had to reinstall Windows. This includes 4-5 ransomware infections. Sometimes, I do surf the wild side, and sometimes I do test highly risky programs etc.

    On XP I used Norton Ghost 2003. On Win 7 it was Acronis TIH 2010, and on Win 10 now, I use MR 7.
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 395
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #7

    Thanks a bunch for the follow ups, especially the comprehensive details from @Ghot. I will study these more carefully tomorrow (it’s 22:30 here) but I can already make my key point: simplicity. System Restore is a couple of clicks and has often fixed an otherwise frustrating issue. Restoring a Macrium image, something I’ve never done and never hope to do, seems a dauntingly complicated and risky task for a non-techie!
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 24,531
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #8

    Terrypin said:
    ... System Restore is a couple of clicks and has often fixed an otherwise frustrating issue. Restoring a Macrium image, something I’ve never done and never hope to do, seems a dauntingly complicated and risky task for a non-techie!

    But doesn't System Restore take such a long time? It seems to take forever just sitting at 'Preparing to Restore....' that you wonder if it's ever going to start.

    Restoring a Macrium image is something I've done so often that I've lost count. If you click 'My Computers' below my post and look at my System Two you'll see why. Generally I find that restoring an image is actually a lot faster than a System Restore.

    Of course, the two serve different purposes. But if you're using System Restore to remove some ill-judged software you've just installed, then if you already have a recent Macrium image I'd add a Differential image just before the the install so that it's completely up to date re: your user files. As Dalchina points out....

    The problem with restoring a disk image is that EVERYTHING on the partitions restored is replaced. That includes personal data, which System Restore never touches.
    I use both, and System Restore has proved useful once fairly recently.

    Making a Differential image can be nearly as fast as creating a Manual Restore Point. And restoring a Macrium image can be a lot faster than using System Restore in my experience. Like Dalchina, I have used both at various times.
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 1,867
    Windows 10 Pro 2004 20H1
       #9

    Ghot said:
    With backup software, you will never need System Restore. System Restore "merges" the current state of the operating system with the Restore Point.
    Disagree.

    System Restore is complementary to disk imaging.

    Each has a different purpose.
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 13,556
    Windows10
       #10

    OldNavyGuy said:
    Disagree.

    System Restore is complementary to disk imaging.

    Each has a different purpose.
    I disagree.

    Restore points are unreliable and there is nothing it does that cannot be done using using system image backups with one caveat.

    A system restore point does not delete new data since restore point was made but an image restore will delete data on drive since backup was made.

    It is important to make an image backup (full, differential, or incremental (paid version)) immediately before using an ealier backup so all data is also backed up.

    I store data on separate drive to OS, so this issue is bypassed.

    Of course, data should be backed up anyway.
    .
      My Computer


 

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