Questions Concerning Entire Disk Drive Cloning Practices For Back Up.

Hello. I have a couple of questions to ask you! I hope everyone is safe during these unusual times!

I just recently purchased a Western Digital (WD) 2TB (NTFS) My Passport backup storage device to back up my newer replaced HHD to SSD (on Disk 0 or 1 depending on the disk management software you are using) a Basic MBR 500 GB total (allocated used 465.8 GB) containing partitions for my Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (Version 1909) system partition, 1 System Reserved partition, 2 different Recovery Partitions installed on my legacy and well running Lenovo ThinkPad T510 Laptop. My filesystem is entirely NTFS (everything) and I am also using MBR on everything too. FYI, now, my old T510 lacks UEFI and only has Basic BIOS if that is any consequence with these questions, I am about to pose to you.

Now, I have Acronis Disk Director 12.5 and I am using it only for cloning and not for traditional backup purposes. Acronis software only allows for entire disk drive cloning (all partitions on the disk) and not specific “partition” cloning. Now, if I go ahead a clone as required by Acronis the entire disk to save my Windows 10 and the other partitions to the WD 2 TB backup disk drive:

Q1. Is there a true need to back up the system reserved AND recovery partitions along with my Windows 10 system partition EACH AND EVERY TIME I DO A DISK DRIVE BACKUP? (I was thinking, if cloning only, the first and only instance, clone the entire disk drive 0 (or 1 depending on the partition management software) onto the WD backup disk drive and then subsequent backups, why not just clone my Windows 10 system partition ONLY (using a “partition cloning” software afterward for Windows 10 system partition only) to the WD 2 TB My Passport Windows 10 system partition as that is what counts? Is it necessary to clone the entire disk drive each and every time for backup purposes? Do I really need those System Reserved and Recovery Partitions backed up every time as well? If so, why?)

Q2. Using Acronis software that only performs a complete disk drive clone backup onto the WD 2 TB My Passport of my Windows 10 system partition and the other partitions I have mentioned on the same disk drive above, it only backs up the 465.8 GB on disk 0 (or 1 depending on the partition management software). If I plan to use the remaining say 1.3 TB on the WD 2 TB My Passport to create a different partition space for separate personal data backup, is there a way when I use the Acronis to only re-clone the disk drive (or overwrite the previous clone backup in the future) of disk 0 (or 1) on the same reserved area (the 465.GB of space on the WD 2TB My Passport and STILL NO HARM MY DATA BACKUP on the remaining 1.3 TB partition? What I am wondering, is if Acronis only clones the ENTIRE disk drive TO ANOTHER ENTIRE DISK DRIVE (in this case to my WD 2 TB My Passport), and only uses approximately a quarter of that space (500 GB) from disk 0 (or 1), then will the remaining three-quarters of the space on the WD 2 TB My Passport WILL ALWAYS BE ERASED, WIPED OUT OR AFFECTED from the disk drive re-cloning process when I am updating my disk 0 (or 1)? In other words, when disk drive cloning from a smaller total space on a disk drive to a larger total space on a disk drive, does that remainder of that larger total space also effected from the disk drive cloning or it does not have to be? How could I perform periodic disk drive clone updates of disk 0 (or 1) and STILL KEEP the personal data backup on another partition NOT AFFECTED on the WD 2 TB My Passport? If not, then the remaining 1.3 TB on the WD 2 B My Passport is a total waste to save other data if I periodically disk drive cloning disk 0 (or 1) to the WD 2 TB My Passport? Please explain.

Please reply. THANK YOU!

dalchina said:

Disk imaging with differential or incremental imaging using a job which specifies retention rules makes the whole thing simple.

Space management on the backup disk is handled by the imaging program. And no need to worry about which of the Windows partitions is imaged or not once the job is set up.

E.g. Macrium reflect (free) (paid adds incremental imaging and more).

Why do you wish to clone?

Hello dalchina!

Hope you are doing good! Thank you for your reply!

Okay to take a side comment on why I clone over disk images... ...to be honest, I have never had any luck in using disk image backups. I have found over time with incremental or differential backups, they become corrupted when I am in need recovering them. Yes, they are less invasive when it comes to creating them as they will work alongside my work on my PC when setup, but they are found to be worthless to use for me as time goes on. I have never had any issues with drive or partition cloning, ever! I love cloning because I get back to work without performing any needless settings and configurations after a restoration from a disk image backup. With clones, I am back up and running in no time as they are a complete duplicate of my OS!

There is a problem with clone as the disk has a signature that windows writes so it knows what it is. With a clone you have two disks the same so windows is confused and may write to the wrong disk or fail to work.

Backup is less important now as you can save files to OneDrive or Google drive and they are safe a lot of settings can be synced as well so unless you have tons of software to install it just as quick download latest free ISO and do a clean install and your files all appear as if by magic

Samuria said:

There is a problem with clone as the disk has a signature that windows writes so it knows what it is. With a clone you have two disks the same so windows is confused and may write to the wrong disk or fail to work.

I know this can be a problem if you are trying to boot the computer with both the original and clone installed, but I have never had a problem when cloning (The source system is always up and running). I clone the disk with the OS on it monthly, on 5 different systems and this has never caused a problem.
@montecarlo1987

Q1. Is there a true need to back up the system reserved AND recovery partitions along with my Windows 10 system partition EACH AND EVERY TIME I DO A DISK DRIVE BACKUP? (I was thinking, if cloning only, the first and only instance, clone the entire disk drive 0 (or 1 depending on the partition management software) onto the WD backup disk drive and then subsequent backups, why not just clone my Windows 10 system partition ONLY (using a “partition cloning” software afterward for Windows 10 system partition only) to the WD 2 TB My Passport Windows 10 system partition as that is what counts? Is it necessary to clone the entire disk drive each and every time for backup purposes? Do I really need those System Reserved and Recovery Partitions backed up every time as well? If so, why?)

I do the whole disk. Then, if I have to restore, I can just pop the clone into the computer, no fuss, no muss, as the saying goes. If for some reason I want to restore the clone to the original disk, I restore everything without worrying if I'm missing anything. I agree with you about cloning vs imaging. I've never had a clone that I couldn't restore (I verify them), but I've had a lot of problems over the years with restoring images. None the less, I use Macrium Reflect weekly for images, and Macrium Reflect monthly for clones.

- - - Updated - - -

Q2. Using Acronis software that only performs a complete disk drive clone backup onto the WD 2 TB My Passport of my Windows 10 system partition and the other partitions I have mentioned on the same disk drive above, it only backs up the 465.8 GB on disk 0 (or 1 depending on the partition management software). If I plan to use the remaining say 1.3 TB on the WD 2 TB My Passport to create a different partition space for separate personal data backup, is there a way when I use the Acronis to only re-clone the disk drive (or overwrite the previous clone backup in the future) of disk 0 (or 1) on the same reserved area (the 465.GB of space on the WD 2TB My Passport and STILL NO HARM MY DATA BACKUP on the remaining 1.3 TB partition? What I am wondering, is if Acronis only clones the ENTIRE disk drive TO ANOTHER ENTIRE DISK DRIVE (in this case to my WD 2 TB My Passport), and only uses approximately a quarter of that space (500 GB) from disk 0 (or 1), then will the remaining three-quarters of the space on the WD 2 TB My Passport WILL ALWAYS BE ERASED, WIPED OUT OR AFFECTED from the disk drive re-cloning process when I am updating my disk 0 (or 1)? In other words, when disk drive cloning from a smaller total space on a disk drive to a larger total space on a disk drive, does that remainder of that larger total space also effected from the disk drive cloning or it does not have to be? How could I perform periodic disk drive clone updates of disk 0 (or 1) and STILL KEEP the personal data backup on another partition NOT AFFECTED on the WD 2 TB My Passport? If not, then the remaining 1.3 TB on the WD 2 B My Passport is a total waste to save other data if I periodically disk drive cloning disk 0 (or 1) to the WD 2 TB My Passport? Please explain.

If I understand you correctly, you only have one large disk that you want to clone your OS to, and back up your data in a separate partition on the same disk. Although possible with the right software, I would strongly advise against this. With just one available extra disk, imaging would be the better way to go.

When I clone, I have 4 separate physical disks that I rotate. Disk 1 in Jan., Disk 2 in Feb., 3 in March, 4 in April. In May, I reuse disk #1. With this procedure, I always have a fairly recent working copy.

In your situation, you could store several images on your 2TB drive and not endanger your data in the separate partition more than normal operations would.

@ GaryW:

Your quite: "If I understand you correctly, you only have one large disk that you want to clone your OS to, and back up your data in a separate partition on the same disk. Although possible with the right software, I would strongly advise against this. With just one available extra disk, imaging would be the better way to go.

When I clone, I have 4 separate physical disks that I rotate. Disk 1 in Jan., Disk 2 in Feb., 3 in March, 4 in April. In May, I reuse disk #1. With this procedure, I always have a fairly recent working copy.

In your situation, you could store several images on your 2TB drive and not endanger your data in the separate partition more than normal operations would."

Hello. Nice to meet you!

Yes, your inquiry on my statement, you have me right!

I would like to utilize my whole WD My Passport 2TB Backup hard drive I recently bought. I am using MBR with NTFS and I already have my max. 4 partitions used (1 Windows 10 system partition with 2 Recovery partitions and 1 System partitions) on my 500 GB SSD drive in my Lenovo T510 laptop. I would like to be able to clone all partitions onto the WD backup drive and still use the remaining approx. 1.3 TB left for personal data storage. The only thing is using Acronis, it allows for disk drive clones and not partition clones. Every time I would have to use Acronis, it would clean the WD backup drive OF EVERYTHING (even my personal data partition) and that is NOT what I want to do. Yes, first and foremost, I would have to either eliminate a partition on my SSD drive since I am at max. 4 partitions to 3, then I could be able to create an extra partition on my WD backup drive to save my personal data. The only issue is that personal data would be compromised every time I do an updated clone of my SSD drive onto the WD backup drive as Acronis would wipe it out that 1.3 TB partition. Is there a way (maybe dreaming (being creative) here, but you never know -- is there somehow a way to take a disk drive and make Windows OS and various cloning/imaging software to see "1" entire disk drive as 2 or more disk drives; so even though there would be 1 internal physical installed SSD drive in your PC, but if you went into Windows Disk Management, for example, it would be listed a 2 or more disk drives in Windows Disk Management? I do see something similar to that with some sandboxes or containers, like Windows Sandbox, there is a SEPARATE disk drive for a virtual read-only disk drive for Windows Sandbox. Now, naturally, I do NOT want it "virtual" hard drive, but physical and real SEPARATE hard drive (not a partition) off of the hard drive. Is there a way to do this? This would solve my issue. So when I clone using software like Acronis the entire hard drive; Acronis would not see the remaining 1.3TB as part of its hard drive, but as SEPARATE hard drive and not affect my personal data and leave it alone. Follow? Just wondering.

By the way, I like your separate physical disk backup procedure! Creative! Yes, imaging to a separate partition on the WD backup drive is a safe way to not lose personal data once placed on a separate partition on the WD backup drive, unlike cloning.

@montecarlo1987

It is possible to do what you asked in your first post. Create 2 partitions on your 2TB drive, Partition 1 to be the same or slightly larger size than drive to be cloned. Partition 2 to be used for your data. Using Mini-tool, you would delete partition #1, leaving unused space. Then using Mini-tool, COPY your source disk to the unused space. (or, clone your OS AND DATA all at the same time to your 2'nd disk). This poses a number of risks though. With the two partition method, there is always the risk of something going wrong and loosing everything. Your better bet for cloning would be to buy 2 or 3 smaller hard drives and rotate them. 500 GB spinners can be purchased for as little as $25 for old (slower) models. Speed isn't that important, if you run the clone over night. Buy one now, then another when you can, etc. Alternating two drives is always beter then having just one drive.

Steve C said:

Your solution is not ideal. I can't recommended Acronis backup software which is poorly engineered and supported. I suggest using the excellent Macrium Reflect instead. The free version is fine for most users. Use imaging rather than cloning for full system backups. There are issues with cloning as discussed above.

+1

I tried a number of other programs with never much success for backing up my system.

Since trying (and buying, not necessary though in most cases) I feel very safe with Macrium Reflect disk images, which I have plenty of different images on plenty of different USB drives.

Try it out, what have you got to lose?