Macrium and Optane

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  1. Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro
       #1

    Macrium and Optane


    I was wondering if anyone could shed light on this. The best operating procedure I could find for using Macrium reflect Free to image a disk that is accelerated (cached) by an Intel Optane module is to dis-able the Optane acceleration before making an image.
    This is from the Intel forums, by other users, as far as I can see there is no official response from Intel or Macrium for this situation.
    Now the question is, if you use the Macrium scheduled back-up does this mean you have to dis-able Optane just before the back-up kicks in, every couple of hours/days etc that you have scheduled?
    The reason I ask is that Intel states that if an Intel Optane module fails, the drive being accelerated is useless, i.e you can not ever use it again due to the pairing service.
    So if you make a disk image with Optane enabled, then the Optane module fails you cannot apply that disk image to a new hard disk because it wont work? Because the pairing files would not be synced?
    So does this mean that all forms of scheduled backup on an Optane accelerated disk are pointless?
    The Optane system apparently save config info to a min 5mb unallocated section of the paired hard disk, Macrium will not include that space in an image will it?
    Does the Optane module physically move certain boot/system files to its cache and write new environmental paths to point to itself?
    Sorry for such a long question but it really is confounding me.
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  2. Posts : 42,955
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #2

    I'd add to that- if you wanted to use a Macrium R boot medium, would it have a suitable driver available to be able to access an Optane configuration, and if not, what should one do?

    (Based on noting a user's experience with Win 10 bootable media and Optane).

    (I suspect very few here use Optane from responses to the one post I recall about this - you may be lucky!)
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  3. Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #3

    A very good point, I have created a Macrium usb boot drive while in Windows and no drivers were copied to the boot disk other than needed for UEFI boot and wireless. No special drivers for Intel RST or Optane (even tho they exist in package cache as fully installable format).
    Using this boot disk with Optane enabled or disabled boots the PC and allows me to image my disk partitions without issue(so no warnings about a hardware cache drive potentially holding needed files).
    I have got into the habit of disabling Optane, booting form USB (Macrium disk) and imaging under the assumption that any files Optane messes with are back on the hard disk while it is disabled.
    I have successfully imaged then restored an image and booted into Windows without issue this way. I have not tried to restore an image while the system has a live/enabled Optane from a previous OS install.
    A lot of mass box shifters are selling machines with a small SSD and a large HDD paired with Optane (Acer, Dell etc) then the owners of those machines maybe get directed as was I to forums like this that (rightfully, imho) tell them to ignore Windows backup and use imaging software instead.
    I foresee quite a few instances of confused and upset computer users, if they image without disabling, Optane first.
    If it turns out that to have a true backup image, usable to apply to a new HDD if your current one fails, you need to constantly disable Optane each time then scheduled imaging is going to be a right technical PITA.
    Also the constant formatting and re-writing of the Optane module (needed after each disable/re-enable cycle) is going to drastically reduce the modules lifetime.
    I have had my system for 10months from new, I have made an image once each month, which I don't consider excessive yet my Optane module is already down to 98% life as reported by Intels own utility.
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  4. Posts : 42,955
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #4

    It would be possible to add the appropriate driver to a boot disk- details of creating a Win 10 boot disk are available, and I have asked the question about RAID there recently, which is a somewhat comparable scenario.
    See post #306 in the thread below.

    Since the boot disk then has a large number of utilities, including MR, that could be an option.
    Win10XPE - Build Your Own Rescue Media

    If you succeeded in doing that, it would be worth documenting, and could even become a tutorial here...
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  5. Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #5

    Thankyou. I will look into that after work.
    Could be interesting to see...although the issue would be, I know there is a pre-installation RST driver(which I've never needed even doing a clean install, since 1803 ...not re-applying of a Macrium image). But that doesn't link to the Optane module during install of the OS, just I think a replacement for the standard Win10 SATA interface driver.
    So for what is in essence an enhanced version of DOS (as near as we get nowadays) with the Macrium boot disk, I don't think I could make use of it for the purpose of testing imaging an Optane accelerated disk and applying to a fresh blank disk.
    But we will see.
    Life really was much easier in the good ol DOS days.
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  6. Posts : 42,955
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #6

    It would be useful if someone with a MR license could ask the question of MR's support...

    Their forum is indexed by search engines, but my quick attempt to find anything relevant failed... however
    Restoring Intel Optane + HDD to a new drive in ATI 2016 | Acronis Forum
    - note posts #2,3 (Acronis TI though)

    And surely there will be something later than 2017..
    Macrium Image of O.S. with Optane cache | Tom's Hardware Forum
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  7. Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #7

    Yeah, checked those links, it really seems there is no documented way to access the Optane system from a boot disk other than the OS boot disk (and Optane fires up with the loading of the OS), although it also seems to decrease the BIOS boot time, no idea how.
    Cannot for the life of me work out how to get Macrium to include the RST install time driver.
    And why is there BIOS support for Intel RST....is this a 3 way config issue?
    Another reason for my interest is that I was following Khari's (sorry if I spelt it wrong) tutorials on using DISM to image and deploy Windows images.
    He seemed to think an image made that way would work regardless, but the fact DISM works under DOS (modern version of it) would the same apply, that you would be missing essential config settings if using DISM on an Optane enabled system, because DISM would not image the unallocated space at end of drive where Optane stores it settings?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ok, quick update. I installed an RTX 2060 (nvidia), works extremely well, however I tried the v-sync Adaptive setting which caused a problem of black screen (unable to do anything) after exiting full screen video, obviously a problem in the drivers.
    Only option was to power down with the power button.
    On start up on the screen before even the bios logo screen there were several messages about incomplete shutdown, rebuilding cache and several progress messages.
    This leads me to believe that Optane enabled images would not work when applied even to the original machine because the files Optane caches would not be included in the image since the Optane module does not appear in the Macrium list of partitions/drives to be imaged.
    I've a feeling the same is true for images created with DISM.
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  8. Posts : 42,955
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #8

    Might be worth exploring what other imaging programs are doing- Acronis TI (far from most people's favourite) I mentioned above.. and maybe they have an accessible forum.

    And there's Easeus ToDo - their support is pretty responsive, clean program. Note this (very brief) comment:
    EaseUS Todo Backup - Driver Manager

    But as you say it may well be that even if you got the driver incorporated, the basic imaging process may prove incompatible.

    You may have seen this somewhat confusing thread:
    Forums
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  9. Posts : 42,955
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #9

    Just got this from Easeus chat (I'm not recommending it in particular, just that I have seen the statement about the Driver Manager for adding drivers when creating the boot disk - perhaps Macrium R has something similar)

    Easeus ToDo Backup
    - works with RAID
    - boot disk does not include a RAID driver
    - Optane- not tested by Easeus

    Driver Manager - allows adding drivers for unsupported hardware to the boot disk. Described as a simple utility- no further documentation.
    EaseUS Todo Backup - Driver Manager

    Trial download:
    http://down.easeus.com/product/tb_enterprise_trial

    Acronis TI 2018 seems to address this:
    Restoring Intel Optane + HDD to a new drive in ATI 2016 | Acronis Forum
    https://forum.acronis.com/forum/acronis-true-image-2017-forum/recovery-and-intel-optane


    Older thread- Easeus worked when others didn't:
    Forums
    Last edited by dalchina; 18 Jun 2019 at 13:25.
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  10. Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #10

    Having read thru your links, scouring the Intel forums I think I will just continue by disabling Optane once a month to image my system. The potential for problems seems too great to risk at the moment.
    I guess Optane is still too new and niche to have gained much trouble shooting info beyond just installing it and what happens when it doesn't work.
    I also think its a bit of a dead duck as a cache system what with the price of SSD's coming down almost every month and emerging SSD's getting faster and bigger.
    I also notice Intel is using their Optane technology built into newer SSD's, which seems odd when you think it was initially introduced as a method to speed up mechanical HDD's.
    At least maybe people will see this post and become aware that if they have an Optane enabled system their backup (imaging wise) solutions could be problematic.
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