Securely Wipe Free Space on SSD

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  1. Posts : 5,330
    Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
       #11

    Have you tried cipher command and then test to see if the deleted files are recoverable?
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  2. Posts : 1,203
    11 Home
       #12

    FreeBooter said:
    Have you tried cipher command and then test to see if the deleted files are recoverable?
    The burden of proof is on those who make the claim that their suggested method for secure deletion works reliably, i.e., by providing the documentation and logical explanations of why anyone should trust the mechanism that causes all sensitive data to be overwritten in NAND.

    EDIT: Below is an example post sharing some necessary details of why there is valid reason for concern. Notice how the risk resulting from wear-leveling gets presented as an "insignificant risk", when nothing is said about how garbage collection works with dynamical over-provisioning and the entropy level of the data written to pages after pages have been erased (or are presumed to have been erased merely for the sake of presumption).
    deletion - How secure is the windows Cipher command? - Information Security Stack Exchange
    Last edited by hdmi; 23 Jan 2022 at 13:22.
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  3. Posts : 99
    Windows 10 Home Version 22H2
       #13

    I have used a program called Eraser to securely wipe free space on my C: drive (SSD) for a number of years. Available from Eraser – Secure Erase Files from Hard Drives

    Possibly that might meet the OP's needs?
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  4. Posts : 1,203
    11 Home
       #14

    retexan599 said:
    I have used a program called Eraser to securely wipe free space on my C: drive (SSD) for a number of years. Available from Eraser – Secure Erase Files from Hard Drives

    Possibly that might meet the OP's needs?
    The "from Hard Drives" part in the title of the link you posted seems reason enough for not wanting to bother with clicking on it.

    EDIT: I decided to click on it anyway. At the bottom of the page is a link that points to an article by Peter Gutmann, Ph.D.
    From this article:

    Recommendations

    There are two ways that you can delete data from magnetic media, using software or by physically destroying the media. For the software-only option, to delete individual files under Windows I use Eraser and under Linux I use shred, which is included in the GNU coreutils and is therefore in pretty much every Linux distro. To erase entire drives I use DBAN, which allows you to create a bootable CD/DVD running a stripped-down Linux kernel from which you can erase pretty much any media. All of these applications are free and open-source/GPLed, there's no need to pay for commercial equivalents when you've got these available, and they're as good as or better than many commercial apps that I've seen. To erase SSDs.... well, you're on your own there.

    That last sentence seems to confirm my conclusion, that I wrote in my first reply to this thread. Everyone is still free to try and refute it of course, but if you want to refute it.... well, you're on your own!
    Last edited by hdmi; 23 Jan 2022 at 14:14.
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  5. Posts : 355
    Windows 10x64 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #15

    Thanks hdmi, from what you say then there are two solutions: either encrypt the whole drive, or wipe the entire drive. And when choosing to wipe the entire drive, do so with a software specific for SSD, not for HDD. Right?
    On a separate note, if I choose the easy path of just overwriting the entire SSD drive with files to full capacity, leaving zero unused space, will that at least make file recovery difficult?
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  6. Posts : 1,203
    11 Home
       #16

    antares said:
    Thanks hdmi, from what you say then there are two solutions: either encrypt the whole drive, or wipe the entire drive. And when choosing to wipe the entire drive, do so with a software specific for SSD, not for HDD. Right?
    On a separate note, if I choose the easy path of just overwriting the entire SSD drive with files to full capacity, leaving zero unused space, will that at least make file recovery difficult?
    Most modern SSDs can be secure erased by using the software provided by the manufacturer. But secure erasing it won't protect your data privacy if the SSD gets stolen or lost, before you had the chance to secure erase.

    Even if the SSD manufacturer does not provide a feature to secure erase in software, as a general rule it should still nevertheless be possible to issue the ATA Secure Erase command (on any modern SATA SSD) or NVMe Secure Erase command (on any NVMe SSD).
    Solid state drive/Memory cell clearing - ArchWiki
    Or if it turns out that the necessary command is not supported by the firmware of your SSD, either you can check if a firmware update has been released to fix that problem or you can use Parted Magic, albeit the latter program is not free.

    Every SSD uses over-provisioning, and, if even just a single page of NAND is not overwritten, then it might still be possible to read one or more chunks of data from it. Even a partial file can still contain sensitive data, and, even if the number of recoverable chunks is low and the size of each recoverable chunk is small, there can be no guarantee that no sensitive data can be retrieved from them.

    The risk may very well be rather small, but then you'd have to guess exactly how small. The crooks who want to steal the data may not very often be the type of crooks who normally have access to a modern advanced data recovery lab or be able to put real pressure on someone who works there. Even if the combined risk is as insignificant as some would have you believe, the potential consequence might be rather huge. A part of the question becomes, how valuable is the data, like, how much is it actually worth? For the average joe, probably not that much... but this isn't for me to decide, as it's just none of my business. So, the first step IMO would be to see how easy it is to avoid the risk altogether, i.e. by looking for a proper method to secure erase before looking for anything else, because, why take the risk, if the risk is easy to avoid? I mean, if the SSD in question can not support a proper method to secure erase it, then you deciding to drill a hole through it is probably what it should deserve, anyway in the first place, so...
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  7. Posts : 5,330
    Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
       #17

    hdmi said:
    The burden of proof is on those who make the claim that their suggested method for secure deletion works reliably, i.e., by providing the documentation and logical explanations of why anyone should trust the mechanism that causes all sensitive data to be overwritten in NAND.

    EDIT: Below is an example post sharing some necessary details of why there is valid reason for concern. Notice how the risk resulting from wear-leveling gets presented as an "insignificant risk", when nothing is said about how garbage collection works with dynamical over-provisioning and the entropy level of the data written to pages after pages have been erased (or are presumed to have been erased merely for the sake of presumption).
    deletion - How secure is the windows Cipher command? - Information Security Stack Exchange
    You did not answer my question, OP asked to delete Free Space i have provided way to do that i have test the Cipher command and after executing the deleted files cannot be recovered.
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  8. Posts : 1,203
    11 Home
       #18

    FreeBooter said:
    You did not answer my question, OP asked to delete Free Space i have provided way to do that i have test the Cipher command and after executing the deleted files cannot be recovered.
    Why should I answer your question? Like I said, the burden of proof is yours, and your alone. Just because you can't recover the files, doesn't in any way prove that everyone else can't, or that there exist no modern advanced data recovery labs where computer forensics experts do this kind of stuff for a living. I posted a link with valid concerns and I also added an additional concern that is equally valid. Aside from a question that is essentially a moot question, what information have you posted so far, that could be used in order to retract these pertinent concerns in any way?

    Here is an analogy. I could not recover my set of lost keys. Therefore, the keys don't exist....
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  9. Posts : 5,330
    Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
       #19

    hdmi said:
    Why should I answer your question? Like I said, the burden of proof is yours, and your alone. Just because you can't recover the files, doesn't in any way prove that everyone else can't, or that there exist no modern advanced data recovery labs where computer forensics experts do this kind of stuff for a living. I posted a link with valid concerns and I also added an additional concern that is equally valid. Aside from a question that is essentially a moot question, what information have you posted so far, that could be used in order to retract these pertinent concerns in any way?

    Here is an analogy. I could not recover my set of lost keys. Therefore, the keys don't exist....
    Why should i need to answer your question. Recovery software cannot recover deleted files when they are overwritten with Cipher command.
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  10. Posts : 1,203
    11 Home
       #20

    FreeBooter said:
    Why should i need to answer your question. Recovery software cannot recover deleted files when they are overwritten with Cipher command.
    How does this prove that the type of recovery software you use is not to blame? Have you never heard of advanced data recovery techniques requiring the type of complex tools that can only be used in a specialised lab environment?
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