Can You Sanitize and Clean VERY Dirty Files that I NEED for Work?


  1. Posts : 235
    Windows 10 Home
       #1

    Can You Sanitize and Clean VERY Dirty Files that I NEED for Work?


    My Sob Story
    I think somebody was having some fun with me this past week although to me, it felt more like a butt plugging. I felt like crying this week. The hacker was probably some lonely guy seeking attention. For a week, my Chrome kept crashing and then not crashing. And, last night, when I got the blue screen of death, I went into my smartphone to retrieve passwords. I couldn't get into my password manager. I don't know why. Same password as usual. And, whenever I would try to type in either the password manager or Chrome on my smartphone, the keyboard layout would close on me about halfway through over and over again.

    Anyway, after a week of being played with, I decided to just reinstall my entire OS. I have Macrium Reflect so I made a drive image with Windows PE before I erased my entire SSD that contained all my programs and data.

    Then, with Macrium Reflect, I am able to retrieve any folder or file that I want. My SSD is displayed as a folder tree and I just click to the folder or files I need.

    Ok. Here is the problem. How to Get Rid of the Viruses in My Documents?

    I know that some of my data is corrupt and probably full of something nasty like a virus, maleware, trojan, keyloggers, etc. (The 1st day of this craziness, RogueKiller found and got rid of a keylogger.) But, I have about 300 gigs of PDFs, Word documents, and other work items on the drive. The installed and portable programs I can easily just get new copies from a safe source. Better yet, I should refrain from using any 3rd party programs at all.

    But, how do I clean the data? I used every single anti-maleware and anti-virus program to scan my drive this past week and they only came up with a few things each time. They obviously didn't find what ultimately caused my OS to brick.

    Or, would the documents be relatively clean since they are only documents - simple files with words and formatting? Or, pictures with color layers? They would be relatively simple files and scans would probably tell me if they truly have a virus or maleware, no? Or is that wishful thinking?

    Can someone with experience help a person down in his luck like me? If you're nearby, I'll buy you a beer!

    Mr. Freeze

    OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Home
    Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 8,059
    windows 10
       #2

    The worrying thing is you say you have problems with your phone I wonder if you have a bad extention in chrome or simliar whic if its backed up may return. it may take some time but do a full online scan as its not effected by anything running on your pc the same Free Online Virus Removal | ESET
      My Computer


  3. Posts : 1,255
    Windows 10 Pro
       #3

    If document files have been corrupted normally the only way to recover them is to restore them from your backups. Files of any importance need at least one backup copy. For files of particular importance (such as for work) you should have 2 or more backup copies kept in different locations.
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 235
    Windows 10 Home
    Thread Starter
       #4

    I don't know if it was an extension. I think it was app. When I was installing Chrome again this morning, I saw this icon next to my user icon and then I saw this new app that I never seen before......wait on crap...I see again...brb...

    Samuria said:
    The worrying thing is you say you have problems with your phone I wonder if you have a bad extention in chrome or simliar whic if its backed up may return. it may take some time but do a full online scan as its not effected by anything running on your pc the same Free Online Virus Removal | ESET
    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry. false alarm. I saw an extension that I erased but I just didn't refresh on an old page.

    I should use the ESET Virus Removal on the PC or my smartphone? Or, both?


    Samuria said:
    The worrying thing is you say you have problems with your phone I wonder if you have a bad extention in chrome or simliar whic if its backed up may return. it may take some time but do a full online scan as its not effected by anything running on your pc the same Free Online Virus Removal | ESET
    - - - Updated - - -

    The document files haven't been corrupted. I guess wrong use of words. I'm saying that one of the documents might contain the virus or trojan that I caused my Chrome and computer to crash in the first place. So, my question is how are you supposed to "sanitize" the documents to make sure that there aren't any more viruses when I download them to my newly installed OS?



    LMiller7 said:
    If document files have been corrupted normally the only way to recover them is to restore them from your backups. Files of any importance need at least one backup copy. For files of particular importance (such as for work) you should have 2 or more backup copies kept in different locations.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi, Lmiller,

    You had suggested the Rule of Three with respect to backups so I'm hoping that you might have some advanced knowledge of viruses and other security issues. My knowledge is pretty limited to what I read in general news articles.

    Would you happen to know of a way to scan files and folders that you have stored on a backup drive and make sure that they are 100% clean of any viruses or any other nasty code?

    Thanks for any help that you can provide.

    Mr. Freeze



    LMiller7 said:
    If document files have been corrupted normally the only way to recover them is to restore them from your backups. Files of any importance need at least one backup copy. For files of particular importance (such as for work) you should have 2 or more backup copies kept in different locations.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Samuria,

    You suggested that I use Eset to scan my data. Did you mean to scan my smartphone, my newly reinstalled OS, or the work documents that I backed up on a network drive?

    Any suggestions are welcome.

    Mr. Freeze
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 31,479
    10 Home x64 (22H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #5

    CerebralFreeze said:
    The document files haven't been corrupted. I guess wrong use of words. I'm saying that one of the documents might contain the virus or trojan that I caused my Chrome and computer to crash in the first place. So, my question is how are you supposed to "sanitize" the documents to make sure that there aren't any more viruses when I download them to my newly installed OS?
    Word or Excel documents that have been infected will contain macros to do the 'dirty work'. If you set the Office options to disable macros when opening a document it should be safe to open such documents. You could then remove the macros (if any) and save as a copy of the document that has no macros.

    Macro settings explained

    • Disable all macros without notification Macros and security alerts about macros are disabled.
    • Disable all macros with notification Macros are disabled, but security alerts appear if there are macros present. Enable macros on a case-by-case basis.
    • Disable all macros except digitally signed macros Macros are disabled, but security alerts appear if there are macros present. However, if the macro is digitally signed by a trusted publisher, the macro runs if you have trusted the publisher. If you have not trusted the publisher, you are notified to enable the signed macro and trust the publisher.
    • Enable all macros (not recommended, potentially dangerous code can run) All macros run. This setting makes your computer vulnerable to potentially malicious code.
    • Trust access to the VBA project object model Disallow or allow programmatic access to the Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) object model from an automation client. This security option is for code written to automate an Office program and manipulate the VBA environment and object model. It is a per-user and per-application setting, and denies access by default, hindering unauthorized programs from building harmful self-replicating code. For automation clients to access the VBA object model, the user running the code must grant access. To turn on access, select the check box.
    Enable or disable macros in Office files - Office Support
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  6. Posts : 161
    Windows 10
       #6

    Get your documents and put them in a zip archive and upload them to VirusTotal. It's the industry standard for quick access to every one of the best virus scanners available. It will scan your file against every virus scanner that recognises and accepts the file format you have used and then will return a result. From there it will give you results based a total amount of detections found by all of the scanners utilised. It allows considerable large files in order to accomodate to the reality that viruses can come in files of all sizes and not just small ones. I think the max upload size is 700MB the last time I checked but I cannot be sure of that right now. It's big that I do know and probably more than sufficient for uploading archives of potentially infected files.

    Have you thought about securely wiping your entire drive and starting again? A remote attacker can not keep access to a compromised system when the system itself no longer is compromised. This means that if the hacker in question poked a hole in your system in order to get in this will no longer be there when it has been patched over by a fresh installation of Windows. The only way an attacker could regain access to your system would be if he has access to your local network (and therefore is more closer to you than you think; friend, family member, work colleague, arch nemesis maybe?) and therefore can launch attacks from the relative safety on your local network, or if you yourself let the attacker in by opening a file that is compromised and therefore executing code that will send a connection back (usually called a reverse shell) to the hacker allowing him to your connect back to your computer and then proceed with exploitation in order to regain escalated privileges, regain persistence etc. A secure wipe will primarily ensure all the data on the drive has been mangled beyond recognition repititively, a good thing if you want to ensure whatever was there is now no longer there. An indepedent secure wipe tool is not OS friendly, it leaves no prisoners and will totally nuke your entire hard drive and leave nothing behind. Something, arguably, you need if you want to sanitize the drive prior to a fresh install.

    The only thing left to do after this is to then regain access to all your accounts. I would be in immediate contact with any high priority services you use where your account could be used to conduct illegal activity, to extort you or others, to rob you of your money, to change things in your life etc. Think which ones you can manage to put on the back burner while thinking about the accounts you really really need access to. Don't delay. The more entities you put in the loop the less damage that can be done longterm. This includes friends, family, work colleagues, associates etc. You don't know the nature of the attack and you also don't know how people would take to this person who has/had access to sensitive information using it to pretend to be you, to say stupid things, to potentially destroy your life etc. Pull out all the stops and have a recovery/contingency plan in place so you can minimize any damage.

    Also, in future, you can setup canary tokens in your My Documents folder so that upon accessing the folder you can be notified of any activity. There are a fair few good websites out there that offer this basic service for free which allows you to know information about the person whose gained access to the folder including IP address, DNS, country of origin etc. They could use a VPN but the canary token reveals someone accessed the folder nonetheless whether it occured from a VPN or not.

    Another solution would be to run your restore in an isolated virtual machine environment using something like VirtualBox. You can download Windows 10 for free from the Microsoft Developer downloads website which allows you to use the full version of Windows 10 Enterprise for a number of days. You can run everything you think is risky to your hearts content and then see what happens to the system. Just make sure not to expose anything to the virtual machine that might otherwise make your system vulnerable again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    To go back to the original question; no.
    No you cannot santitize and clean infected files. Infected files are generally no longer the original files you once had. That's why they are deleted or thrown in the virus chest.They are to put it a simple way, injected with malicious code that then exploits the system whenever someone runs that file. This malicious code would have to be removed which would require extensive malware analysis knowledge, something some of the best in the business are capable of doing but not at the drop of the hat to turn up at your house to restore the file to it's former glory. Antivirus software does not accomodate for this possibility either as it means effectively reverse engineering the entire code in the file and then removing the malicious code and then rebuilding the file in it's original form. And that is something experts could do but these guys are not likely to do that without it being a big job and a big contract involved, as previously mentioned.

    You're talking about a very advanced feat to pull off. When a file is infected it is by and large no longer returnable to it's original form unless that infection is actually a form of encryption like used in ransomware attacks where the file is not original but has been encrypted to extort people into paying for it's decryption. This can be reversed because if you know how to decrypt the file you can do that and then the file is now in it's original form. In any other scenario the necessisity of the attack to become possible in the first place requires the target file becoming infected and therefore its taking on of the malicious code in order to allow the malicious intentions of the attacker to take place. The file will therefore never change back to it's original form unless you have a backup, unless the attacker returns it to it's original form, or through some meraculous encounter. Usually the damage has already been done.
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 235
    Windows 10 Home
    Thread Starter
       #7

    Bree,

    Thanks for the advice. Luckily, I never enabled Macros for Word or Excel. I tried to learn VBA once but it was taking too long and so I gave up. I'm too old.

    If you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

    Thank you, bro. (sis, if you're a girl)

    Bree said:
    Word or Excel documents that have been infected will contain macros to do the 'dirty work'. If you set the Office options to disable macros when opening a document it should be safe to open such documents. You could then remove the macros (if any) and save as a copy of the document that has no macros.

    Enable or disable macros in Office files - Office Support
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 31,479
    10 Home x64 (22H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #8

    CerebralFreeze said:
    Luckily, I never enabled Macros for Word or Excel....
    Thank you, bro. (sis, if you're a girl)

    It's 'bro'

    If you have never enabled macros, then your documents should be 'safe' to open and see if they have been corrupted. No macros means nothing to do you damage, but it doesn't confirm they are uncorrupted. Any that warn they contain macros when you try to open them may have been infected.

    Any good AV should detect macro viruses in your documents, so scan them all first.
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 235
    Windows 10 Home
    Thread Starter
       #9

    Thank you, friend


    I'll try to do that with some of my folders right now (use VirusTotal) but it's probably not going to be possible for most of my files. I think I have about 200 gigs worth of files. It's a lot I know. It's just work stuff that I've compiled over 20 years. The biggest files are voice recordings, video recordings, and pictures that I can't get rid of. They pertain to work or they have sentimental value. Any ideas on those?

    Also, have you heard about this? I've heard that VirusTotal is not as effective anymore because hackers, the first thing they try is to pass VirusTotal's scan because it's gotten so popular. So, you actually end up more successful with an effective, lesser known scanner. I also heard that all anti-virus and maleware software only catch some of the stuff on your computer. That many virus and maleware end up staying on your computer for 3 years or so because that is the real time that anti-virus and maleware makers really find the crafty ones. For example, if you took a supposedly clean hard drive that you stored 3 years ago, and you run VirusTotal and Malewarebytes, you'll be surprised to find a slew of stuff that was hidden for all these years. It takes that long sometimes for things to get found.

    Btw, I actually did completely wipe my drive! I am starting completely from scratch as I reinstalled Windows 10 from an ISO copy on a USB flash drive. My question was what do I do with all the original documents that I have stored on a drive image on a network drive? I know that the drive image is corrupted. My computer was doing some funky stuff at the end. Even my smartphone is screwed up now. Maybe they got in via a Chrome extension? I can't use the browser of my smartphone at all right now. Dialing is wacky. I've been deleting all the apps but nothing helps.

    But, the big question is: How do I clean my original documents so I can save them onto my newly reinstalled SSD? How can I be sure that the documents are not going to spread another virus in another week or so?

    I don't necessarily need the ones that are infected. How I tell which ones are infected? So, I can throw those out and keep all the clean ones? I've already copied over several files to my newly installed computer. I then run scans on them. They all come clean. Nevertheless, I just throw away any programs that I can download from a safe source. Or, I throw them out permanently if I don't really need them.

    My cousin is in cybersecurity startup. He basically hacks into big companies like Microsoft and they pay him a bounty of $30k when he finds a way to break in. We're not very close at all but I emailed him and asked him what to do. He said that the ONLY solution for me is to not download any 3rd party programs and just rely on Windows Defender. He said there is nothing else that I can do. The answer is simple as that. He said every additional program you use is another way that a hacker can gain access to your computer. There is no way to trust anyone.

    I don't think that's very realistic view though. I love some of my 3rd party programs and I don't want to give them up. But, I'll probably stop using programs like Flux. I like Flux much better than Windows night light program but it's one less way that I can get hacked....

    Thanks really a lot for all your info. I'm going to look into the Canary thing. I have 3 backup methods I use so I'm not scared of ramsonware necessarily. But, I am afraid that people will read private stuff and just generally mess with my life. Last week, my Chrome would work for a while. Then, it would crash for a while. Then, it would work for a day. Then, crash. Things were just "off". Like Excel would hang for 5 minutes and then be ok.

    I've got to learn how to do port forwarding but it seems like it'll take a long time. And, I'm so tired from all this...

    supermammalego said:
    Get your documents and put them in a zip archive and upload them to VirusTotal. It's the industry standard for quick access to every one of the best virus scanners available. It will scan your file against every virus scanner that recognises and accepts the file format you have used and then will return a result. From there it will give you results based a total amount of detections found by all of the scanners utilised. It allows considerable large files in order to accomodate to the reality that viruses can come in files of all sizes and not just small ones. I think the max upload size is 700MB the last time I checked but I cannot be sure of that right now. It's big that I do know and probably more than sufficient for uploading archives of potentially infected files.

    Have you thought about securely wiping your entire drive and starting again? A remote attacker can not keep access to a compromised system when the system itself no longer is compromised. This means that if the hacker in question poked a hole in your system in order to get in this will no longer be there when it has been patched over by a fresh installation of Windows. The only way an attacker could regain access to your system would be if he has access to your local network (and therefore is more closer to you than you think; friend, family member, work colleague, arch nemesis maybe?) and therefore can launch attacks from the relative safety on your local network, or if you yourself let the attacker in by opening a file that is compromised and therefore executing code that will send a connection back (usually called a reverse shell) to the hacker allowing him to your connect back to your computer and then proceed with exploitation in order to regain escalated privileges, regain persistence etc. A secure wipe will primarily ensure all the data on the drive has been mangled beyond recognition repititively, a good thing if you want to ensure whatever was there is now no longer there. An indepedent secure wipe tool is not OS friendly, it leaves no prisoners and will totally nuke your entire hard drive and leave nothing behind. Something, arguably, you need if you want to sanitize the drive prior to a fresh install.

    The only thing left to do after this is to then regain access to all your accounts. I would be in immediate contact with any high priority services you use where your account could be used to conduct illegal activity, to extort you or others, to rob you of your money, to change things in your life etc. Think which ones you can manage to put on the back burner while thinking about the accounts you really really need access to. Don't delay. The more entities you put in the loop the less damage that can be done longterm. This includes friends, family, work colleagues, associates etc. You don't know the nature of the attack and you also don't know how people would take to this person who has/had access to sensitive information using it to pretend to be you, to say stupid things, to potentially destroy your life etc. Pull out all the stops and have a recovery/contingency plan in place so you can minimize any damage.

    Also, in future, you can setup canary tokens in your My Documents folder so that upon accessing the folder you can be notified of any activity. There are a fair few good websites out there that offer this basic service for free which allows you to know information about the person whose gained access to the folder including IP address, DNS, country of origin etc. They could use a VPN but the canary token reveals someone accessed the folder nonetheless whether it occured from a VPN or not.

    Another solution would be to run your restore in an isolated virtual machine environment using something like VirtualBox. You can download Windows 10 for free from the Microsoft Developer downloads website which allows you to use the full version of Windows 10 Enterprise for a number of days. You can run everything you think is risky to your hearts content and then see what happens to the system. Just make sure not to expose anything to the virtual machine that might otherwise make your system vulnerable again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    To go back to the original question; no.
    No you cannot santitize and clean infected files. Infected files are generally no longer the original files you once had. That's why they are deleted or thrown in the virus chest.They are to put it a simple way, injected with malicious code that then exploits the system whenever someone runs that file. This malicious code would have to be removed which would require extensive malware analysis knowledge, something some of the best in the business are capable of doing but not at the drop of the hat to turn up at your house to restore the file to it's former glory. Antivirus software does not accomodate for this possibility either as it means effectively reverse engineering the entire code in the file and then removing the malicious code and then rebuilding the file in it's original form. And that is something experts could do but these guys are not likely to do that without it being a big job and a big contract involved, as previously mentioned.

    You're talking about a very advanced feat to pull off. When a file is infected it is by and large no longer returnable to it's original form unless that infection is actually a form of encryption like used in ransomware attacks where the file is not original but has been encrypted to extort people into paying for it's decryption. This can be reversed because if you know how to decrypt the file you can do that and then the file is now in it's original form. In any other scenario the necessisity of the attack to become possible in the first place requires the target file becoming infected and therefore its taking on of the malicious code in order to allow the malicious intentions of the attacker to take place. The file will therefore never change back to it's original form unless you have a backup, unless the attacker returns it to it's original form, or through some meraculous encounter. Usually the damage has already been done.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks, bro,

    I appreciate it. It's been a little hectic for me this past 2 weeks because of all this computer stuff. I want to get my hand on the guy or kid and wring his neck. They should really put people like that in prison. They don't know how much stress they put on people. Or, maybe they do and do it anyway!

    Bree said:
    It's 'bro'

    If you have never enabled macros, then your documents should be 'safe' to open and see if they have been corrupted. No macros means nothing to do you damage, but it doesn't confirm they are uncorrupted. Any that warn they contain macros when you try to open them may have been infected.

    Any good AV should detect macro viruses in your documents, so scan them all first.
    Last edited by CerebralFreeze; 22 May 2020 at 12:53. Reason: Separate the paragraphs.
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 161
    Windows 10
       #10

    It's a difficult position to be in because it appears you cannot do right from wrong. If you run a file it may be infected and if you don't run a file you're not able to access and use what you've been storing all this time so these files become pretty much pointless.

    I've just thought of a way you could potentially run them without causing damage to your computer. Five ways actually.

    1. Virtual Machine environment (VirtualBox, VMware etc)
    The first is running your files in a virtual environment which has zero value to you other than for testing purposes. Security pros use this option A LOT. It's where most conduct their research without compromising their actual systems they do the work on because what good would that do? Haha. You don't really need Windows installed in this virtual environment although it will help if you want to provide the environment for the attacker who no doubt expects a Windows operating system. When you run the file and if it is infected the changes made by the attacker will happen only in the virtual environment. No changes will be made outside of this environment. One niggle with this is some more experienced hackers can probe for sandbox environments and/or virtual machine environments and simply shut down their operations if they believe their attack is happening within the confides of an effective prison cell with no access to the crown jewels ie an exploitable operating system with value to the victim. Many much more complex attacks simply won't happen if the program can identify these variables. It is worth a try though seeing as the less specific your attack is the more chance it will target and therefore exploit a larger number of computers. The more specific it is the less likely your attack will work but it may increase the chances of getting a quality hit on a computer you want the most ie with certain software installed, certain hardware, certain vulnerabilities etc. I'd say give virtual environments a go and see what happens when you start playing about with your files. You can leave the environment running for as long as possible in order to replicate a real computer being used for real tasks. The likelihood is you'll see changes being made and therefore know the virtual environment has been hacked. Then, just shut down the virtual environment and delete it and viola the threat goes just like it never existed. Or boot it up whenever you wish and see what's going on. So long as you don't accidentally/deliberately bridge the connection from your actual system to the virtual machine you'll be fine.

    2. Sandboxing (Sandboxie, your AV built-in sandbox solution etc.)
    Another way to go is through sandboxing. This will replicate the session you have with whatever program you're running and instead run it through an isolated environment that has no affinity (if you choose it to be so) with the original program or even the system if you want to really isolate the operation. Sandboxie is a really good program that runs whatever software you have on your computer through an isolated environment that can be completely disconnected from the system so no changes can be made unless you authorise them. You can set your browser to run but not touch original files that were created in the installation so nothing becomes corrupted by nasty stuff. You can set programs to not connect out to the internet much like a firewall. You can prevent system wide changes being made fairly easily and this includes many areas of the system that are often left vulnerable to nasty stuff when a program gets access to your system. Just run your files and/or the program responsible for running your files in a sandboxed environment and make sure to ensure it cannot escape the sandbox environment (you'll need to do a bit of studying to set the right settings). Any changes made will only be made in the sandbox. You can then choose to integrate the changes made or delete them. I often simply delete each sandbox session as soon as I'm finished with it so any changes are completely illusory but this has a detrimental effect on your productivity as nothing gets saved beyond the last time you allowed changes to be made. Everything will revert back to the last time a program and it's files were modified outside of the sandbox. And so you're facing a compromise between security and usability. If all your programs have amnesia through using a sandbox, can you cope with everything going back to a former state? Sooner or later you may disable sandbox and update software, make changes to it etc and then re-enable sandbox so those changes are taken into account so when you use sandbox again it reverts back to the most recent changes.

    4. Firewall
    Get yourself a decent firewall program that allows you full configuration over it. Many AV built-in ones are designed for the average end user who has little knowledge nor little care over what it does so long as it does it's job to a decent standard. This prevents you from making some significant changes to the way it runs. Ramp up the security level of the firewall and enable the highest level of alerts. Make sure the decisions made are not automatic and instead you get the decide. Also if your firewall has HIPS you can enable this and this will alert you everytime changes are being made in the system, particularly important areas that are often targeted by malware. You can also use a decent firewall to block incoming/outgoing connections as well as programs that connect out. You'll see programs connecting out that perhaps you've never seen before. This is a good basic education as to what is running on your computer and also what should and should not be running. If you see 'shadyprogram.exe' starting a HTTP connection or a HTTPS connection you can immediately block it and then set a rule to permanantely block it. With HIPS you'll see the system changes being made and be able to set a rule to block those changes. When you see that malware often needs a connection out to the internet in order to work the best and remain controllable by the hacker it becomes a case of locking down your network so that it's options to connect out become much much smaller.

    5. Decent anti-malware solution
    You should never rely on anti-malware software alone to remove threats. They are instrinically flawed simply by the nature in which malware works. Basically it's always in front of the latest knowledge the good guys have. Because they only work with what they know, what they know is often less than the current new threats that exist. Which means what isn't known gets through no matter what protection you have IF you rely solely on antimalware protection. But, you can get some a high level of protection nonetheless by installing one. HitmanPro Alert is probably the best right now as well as Emsisoft. HitmanPro Alert has lots of settings you can enable that work really well and protect quite a fair few areas of your computer. Plus Sophos are among the top of the game when it comes to security research.
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