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  1. Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 9,115
    W10Prox64
       20 Oct 2016 #101

    LAPS said: View Post
    Great idea SImrick. I will do that. I might be asking for help on some aspects of that as well. Where would I go to read these forum rules anyhow? I'd love to check them out.
    Forum Rules - Windows 10 Forums

    How did it go with the clean? or, have you not gotten that far yet?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 47
    Windows 10 Pro
       21 Oct 2016 #102

    You should give a look at Winpatrol, http://www.winpatrol.com


    Also teach your son to hit CTRL ALT DELETE to close popups when these warning popups or *player windows* appear when he is surfing porn (yeah I know, NO young man would EVER look or want to look at nekkid women or sex, but just pretend he MIGHT have since that is where most malware I cleaned off computer comes from lol), most are set up so that when you click what you THINK is the X to close, it's REALLY permission to start downloading viruses.

    Also on the SAS thing. I got a free lifetime subscription to SAS Pro a long time ago, and I love it. I would gladly have paid $19.99 for the pro version, but I don't know about this 29.99 a year thing...... I know everyone is doing it, but......... the free version is awesome and more than adequate for most home users.


    Oh and one great thing about Winpatrol is that if you have a problem or question, many times it's Bret Lowery, the programmer/owner who will answer it. He works harder than anyone I have seen to keep is safe and his products remain sort of obscure........ I don't know why.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Join Date : Sep 2016
    Calgary
    Posts : 74
    Windows 10 Anniversary
       21 Oct 2016 #103

    simrick said: View Post
    Forum Rules - Windows 10 Forums

    How did it go with the clean? or, have you not gotten that far yet?
    I haven't tackled it yet. Life is so busy, and to be honest I'm super paranoid that maybe my flash drive has a virus on it thats hidden and I don't want to have to do this all again. Last time I thought I did a clean install and it obviously wasn't. I think I'm going to use a different computer to mount the ISO on my flash drive. Good news weekend is coming and I might have time this weekend. Life's been mega busy lately and I just don't have the heart to tackle it at 10pm after everything winds down lately. This weekend its happening though, come hell or high water. I gotta do it. Then I'm going to do the same exact this with my son's old hard drive, and reinstall windows on there too. For awhile we were running 2 separate windows on the same PC build running off 2 different hard drives from boot up. I really don't want him in my system at all. I was thinking through drive management I can block off access to any of my drives so they can't get polluted but is that possible? I will still run the security grid on his computer and be the administrator for his system as well. Does that make sense?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 9,115
    W10Prox64
       21 Oct 2016 #104

    LAPS said: View Post
    I haven't tackled it yet. Life is so busy, and to be honest I'm super paranoid that maybe my flash drive has a virus on it thats hidden and I don't want to have to do this all again. Last time I thought I did a clean install and it obviously wasn't. I think I'm going to use a different computer to mount the ISO on my flash drive.
    Oh yeah, I hear ya.
    There's an easy way to know if there's a hidden partition on a flash drive - try making a Macrium Rescue ISO on it. It'll give you an error if there's something lurking with a hidden partition. Believe me - I had it happen once! Or, just clean the flash drive using diskpart, and you'll be good to go.

    Just so you understand: When I had a flash drive with a hidden partition on it from a virus, I got error code 2 when trying to create the bootable media. Macrium has a document here to overcome error codes:
    How to create USB rescue media

    Scrolling down to File System at Start of Disk (Error Code 2) shows how to overcome this. I realize it's from their old knowledge base documents, so here's the new link:
    Preparing a USB stick for Windows PE - KnowledgeBase - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase
    Basically the instructions are the same. Using diskpart, you can completely wipe the drive (using the same instructions as I gave for your operating system drive). Just be sure you select the correct one!

    LAPS said: View Post
    Good news weekend is coming and I might have time this weekend. Life's been mega busy lately and I just don't have the heart to tackle it at 10pm after everything winds down lately.
    Yeah, I wouldn't be doing it at 10pm at night either...

    LAPS said: View Post
    This weekend its happening though, come hell or high water. I gotta do it. Then I'm going to do the same exact this with my son's old hard drive, and reinstall windows on there too. For awhile we were running 2 separate windows on the same PC build running off 2 different hard drives from boot up. I really don't want him in my system at all. I was thinking through drive management I can block off access to any of my drives so they can't get polluted but is that possible? I will still run the security grid on his computer and be the administrator for his system as well. Does that make sense?
    Dual booting, hiding volumes. Yes, I remember there was an issue that arose when dual-booting XP and a newer OS (I think it started with Vista; I had the problem on a dual-boot system with XP+W8). The problem was that the restore points would be deleted when changing from one operating system to the other. The fix was a registry hack to hide the other volume. I'd have to do some research on that, as it's been a while.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Join Date : Sep 2016
    Calgary
    Posts : 74
    Windows 10 Anniversary
       22 Oct 2016 #105

    OK. Finished my first clean install. I did a windows update (on WiFi) without issue. I never let it finish but it searched for about 10 minutes looking for them on Ethernet with no results. On WiFi it seems to find them almost instantly. I think the problem with the Ethernet connection is that I actually have the Ethernet plugged into my Telus TV box that runs off a broadband connection, so I'm using it like a switch. I've been using it like that for 3 years now with almost no issues, but I remember 1x when I was having bandwidth issues I called Telus and they really questioned me about that connection. At the end of the day I remember they just had me unplug, and then re-plug in my Ethernet cable and that seemed to relieve the logjam. I just remembered that now, so I just went and did that again. Later I will try using the Ethernet to update again. Regardless, it seems though that things are running better in the early stages.

    This is where the problem comes in. Like I said my son has a HD with WIN10. Like you mentioned I unplugged all peripherals and hard drives and tried to boot it up so I could get the Windows 10 key from it so I can re-do it. It booted up to the login screen. Problem was mouse worked, keyboard didn't. I played with the connections and plugged it in a few different USB ports. Nothing, it's like the USB ports were powered off after I unplugged it.. Nothing worked. So I restarted. After that it won't even boot up. It's like the hard drive doesn't exist, but it does show in the BIOS when I look at the drives. I shutdown and played with the SATA cables (I'm using the same cable right now on my HD). Fired it up again and nothing. So I guess my question is 2 fold.

    #1. Is it possible that HD is toast? Any other suggestions?

    #2. How do I recover the WIN10 key? Like you said I can just go to WIN10. I don't want to have to start back at WIN7 again, or will I have to? Please advise?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 9,115
    W10Prox64
       22 Oct 2016 #106

    LAPS said: View Post
    OK. Finished my first clean install. I did a windows update (on WiFi) without issue. I never let it finish but it searched for about 10 minutes looking for them on Ethernet with no results. On WiFi it seems to find them almost instantly. I think the problem with the Ethernet connection is that I actually have the Ethernet plugged into my Telus TV box that runs off a broadband connection, so I'm using it like a switch. I've been using it like that for 3 years now with almost no issues, but I remember 1x when I was having bandwidth issues I called Telus and they really questioned me about that connection. At the end of the day I remember they just had me unplug, and then re-plug in my Ethernet cable and that seemed to relieve the logjam. I just remembered that now, so I just went and did that again. Later I will try using the Ethernet to update again. Regardless, it seems though that things are running better in the early stages.
    Great! I would recommend, before you do anything else, you install Macrium Reflect Free, and image the entire hard drive to an external drive. Be sure to check the box for "verify" when making the image.

    Macrium Reflect - Backup Restore - Windows 10 Forums

    You're on the Anniversary Release now?

    LAPS said: View Post
    This is where the problem comes in. Like I said my son has a HD with WIN10. Like you mentioned I unplugged all peripherals and hard drives and tried to boot it up so I could get the Windows 10 key from it so I can re-do it. It booted up to the login screen. Problem was mouse worked, keyboard didn't. I played with the connections and plugged it in a few different USB ports. Nothing, it's like the USB ports were powered off after I unplugged it.. Nothing worked. So I restarted. After that it won't even boot up. It's like the hard drive doesn't exist, but it does show in the BIOS when I look at the drives. I shutdown and played with the SATA cables (I'm using the same cable right now on my HD). Fired it up again and nothing. So I guess my question is 2 fold.

    #1. Is it possible that HD is toast? Any other suggestions?

    #2. How do I recover the WIN10 key? Like you said I can just go to WIN10. I don't want to have to start back at WIN7 again, or will I have to? Please advise?
    It's not necessary to recover a W10 key, once a system has had W10 installed and activated on it. It will install without a key, as the activation resides on the MS servers.

    Let me get this straight - you're using the same box, just swapping out hard drives at this point? Or, do you have 2 different systems?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Join Date : Sep 2016
    Calgary
    Posts : 74
    Windows 10 Anniversary
       22 Oct 2016 #107

    simrick said: View Post
    Great! I would recommend, before you do anything else, you install Macrium Reflect Free, and image the entire hard drive to an external drive. Be sure to check the box for "verify" when making the image.

    Macrium Reflect - Backup Restore - Windows 10 Forums
    I'm scared to even have them both plugged in at the same time. LOL, but if that's the only way I will do it. Then I plan to format it and use for a storage drive. I have a new SSD I want to use for the second OS. I don't have an external drive, but I do have a HOT SWAP port. I could probably back it up to the new SSD. Does a macruim image take up the same space as what is used on whatever HDD your backing up or is it something different?


    You're on the Anniversary Release now?
    Both HDD's have WIN10 installed. 2 Separate keys. Mine is fully cleaned and re-installed and updated.

    The HDD from my sons Laptop is the one giving me problems. I know it's infested with Viruses. There are multiple issues with it. You can't even open task manager because it's locked out. We haven't used it in about 6 months because I didn't want to deal with it so he started using mine. He was pretty careful at first but then he started getting bolder and taking risks.


    It's not necessary to recover a W10 key, once a system has had W10 installed and activated on it. It will install without a key, as the activation resides on the MS servers.

    Let me get this straight - you're using the same box, just swapping out hard drives at this point? Or, do you have 2 different systems?

    Yes, same box. 2 separate HD's. I remembered what you said about the key and it recognizing it but with my main system it wouldn't let me proceed until I put in a key. Both options I selected (either reg install or custom) gave me error messages unless I put in the key. That's actually what happened the first time around (2 months ago). I had WIN10 burned on a CD but it wouldn't let me proceed without the key so that's why I went back to 8.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 9,115
    W10Prox64
       22 Oct 2016 #108

    LAPS said: View Post
    I'm scared to even have them both plugged in at the same time. LOL, but if that's the only way I will do it. Then I plan to format it and use for a storage drive. I have a new SSD I want to use for the second OS. I don't have an external drive, but I do have a HOT SWAP port. I could probably back it up to the new SSD. Does a macruim image take up the same space as what is used on whatever HDD your backing up or is it something different?
    A Macrium image will be about 60-75% of whatever you're backing up (normal compression-recommended).

    LAPS said: View Post
    Both HDD's have WIN10 installed. 2 Separate keys. Mine is fully cleaned and re-installed and updated.
    So, how difficult is it to physically remove the HDD from the laptop? The reason I ask is, once you have your system imaged, and the image physically removed from the system, you could hook up the laptop HDD, and clean it using your system. Being it won't be "OS-running", usually, (and I stress usually), infections are dormant in that situation. You could run AV and malware scans on it to clean it off, then put it back in the laptop, run ShowKeyPlus, and grab the key. Should your system get infected from a worm (unlikely, but possible), you have your image to restore, so all is good.

    Another option: Boot the laptop to Kyhi's rescue media and run Malwarebytes Antimalware in that environment on the laptop HDD. Then boot to safe mode, and run ShowKeyPlus to grab the keycode.

    Just curious - is there a reason he can't use the laptop anymore?

    LAPS said: View Post
    The HDD from my sons Laptop is the one giving me problems. I know it's infested with Viruses. There are multiple issues with it. You can't even open task manager because it's locked out. We haven't used it in about 6 months because I didn't want to deal with it so he started using mine. He was pretty careful at first but then he started getting bolder and taking risks.
    Safe mode usually prevents most infections from running (and I stress most, not all). If you can boot into safe mode, run RKILL to temporarily stop any malicious processes which may be running, and then clean it. Honestly, if you can get him back on his laptop, with you as admin and him as limited user (and other precautions in place), I think that would be best for both of you. We can start another thread for his laptop if you'd like.


    LAPS said: View Post
    Yes, same box. 2 separate HD's. I remembered what you said about the key and it recognizing it but with my main system it wouldn't let me proceed until I put in a key. Both options I selected (either reg install or custom) gave me error messages unless I put in the key. That's actually what happened the first time around (2 months ago). I had WIN10 burned on a CD but it wouldn't let me proceed without the key so that's why I went back to 8.
    Are the keys you're using Retail keys? I didn't think so, because you had upgraded (the free upgrade deal, right?). You should be able to click on I don't have a key, (very small, at the bottom, not real obvious), and installation should proceed. Once installed, the system would simply not be activated, and would nag you about it.

    I'm just wondering (thinking out loud) if activation things would get messed up with these keys. You see, OEM keys are tied to the system they activated on, and are not transferable. If you try to use his upgraded laptop key and it's an OEM upgrade, well, it's not legal, and could cause problems on your system. Retail keys, however, are transferable.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Join Date : Sep 2016
    Calgary
    Posts : 74
    Windows 10 Anniversary
       23 Oct 2016 #109

    So, how difficult is it to physically remove the HDD from the laptop? The reason I ask is, once you have your system imaged, and the image physically removed from the system, you could hook up the laptop HDD, and clean it using your system. Being it won't be "OS-running", usually, (and I stress usually), infections are dormant in that situation. You could run AV and malware scans on it to clean it off, then put it back in the laptop, run ShowKeyPlus, and grab the key. Should your system get infected from a worm (unlikely, but possible), you have your image to restore, so all is good.
    HDD is already out of the laptop. The laptop is kaput. Up until about 4-5 months ago we were already using a dual boot system. I don't even want to take the time to clean it. It's just full of games and whatnot. I just want to wipe it clean. The only reason I was trying to access it today was to get the WIN10 key.

    Another option: Boot the laptop to Kyhi's rescue media and run Malwarebytes Antimalware in that environment on the laptop HDD. Then boot to safe mode, and run ShowKeyPlus to grab the keycode.
    Would this solve the problem why that drive won't even boot. IDK, I'm gonna try and boot it up again as soon as I finish posting this email. It was just wierd what was happening.


    Just curious - is there a reason he can't use the laptop anymore?
    Laptop is kaput. My 3yo push the laptop off the kitchen counter and it landed directly on the power plug. Plug got forced into the machine and actually sheared off a few of the connecting pins. Computer store wanted something like $400 to fix it. It's in the garbage.



    Safe mode usually prevents most infections from running (and I stress most, not all). If you can boot into safe mode, run RKILL to temporarily stop any malicious processes which may be running, and then clean it. Honestly, if you can get him back on his laptop, with you as admin and him as limited user (and other precautions in place), I think that would be best for both of you. We can start another thread for his laptop if you'd like.
    I will try and boot up the drive again. I will unplug this one and have only his connected. If I can get on there I will run showkey and then just DISKPART Clean ALL it. I have a brand new SSD that I want to use for his system. This old HDD will just be used for his storage drive. Both drives are only around 240gig so it will give him about 500 gig of space..



    Are the keys you're using Retail keys? I didn't think so, because you had upgraded (the free upgrade deal, right?). You should be able to click on I don't have a key, (very small, at the bottom, not real obvious), and installation should proceed. Once installed, the system would simply not be activated, and would nag you about it.
    We did the free upgrade deal. No retail keys. But when I run the ISO, with either install option it won't work unless I use a key. That's not what it says, it says something like there is already a windows version running which would be impossible because I had done the DISKPART -Clean all on it. There were no traces left. Once I put the key in it worked like a charm (this is all talking about my personal OS - HDD). I did like u said and select the "I don't have a key" but I can't proceed doing that.

    I'm just wondering (thinking out loud) if activation things would get messed up with these keys. You see, OEM keys are tied to the system they activated on, and are not transferable. If you try to use his upgraded laptop key and it's an OEM upgrade, well, it's not legal, and could cause problems on your system. Retail keys, however, are transferable.
    Hmm, his was an OEM key initally, but it definitely was working before and we had no issues. But I wasn't thinking of the legal ramifications. Hmmmm.

    Do I even need a 2nd key? Like u said. Both are running off the same system.
    Last edited by LAPS; 23 Oct 2016 at 02:51.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 9,115
    W10Prox64
       23 Oct 2016 #110

    LAPS said: View Post
    HDD is already out of the laptop. The laptop is kaput. Up until about 4-5 months ago we were already using a dual boot system. I don't even want to take the time to clean it. It's just full of games and whatnot. I just want to wipe it clean. The only reason I was trying to access it today was to get the WIN10 key.

    Would this solve the problem why that drive won't even boot. IDK, I'm gonna try and boot it up again as soon as I finish posting this email. It was just wierd what was happening.

    Laptop is kaput. My 3yo push the laptop off the kitchen counter and it landed directly on the power plug. Plug got forced into the machine and actually sheared off a few of the connecting pins. Computer store wanted something like $400 to fix it. It's in the garbage.

    I will try and boot up the drive again. I will unplug this one and have only his connected. If I can get on there I will run showkey and then just DISKPART Clean ALL it. I have a brand new SSD that I want to use for his system. This old HDD will just be used for his storage drive. Both drives are only around 240gig so it will give him about 500 gig of space..

    We did the free upgrade deal. No retail keys. But when I run the ISO, with either install option it won't work unless I use a key. That's not what it says, it says something like there is already a windows version running which would be impossible because I had done the DISKPART -Clean all on it. There were no traces left. Once I put the key in it worked like a charm (this is all talking about my personal OS - HDD). I did like u said and select the "I don't have a key" but I can't proceed doing that.

    Hmm, his was an OEM key initally, but it definitely was working before and we had no issues. But I wasn't thinking of the legal ramifications. Hmmmm.

    Do I even need a 2nd key? Like u said. Both are running off the same system.
    Okay, laptop is history. Your key is the only key to be used on your system, not his. His OEM key died with the laptop and is not transferable. Just use diskpart clean all on the infected drive then and use it for storage. I think dual booting would technically require a new key. It's a gray area, and I'm not gonna go there. Christmas is just around the corner.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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