Is paying for antivirus a waste of money?

Actually at first sight when the initial "Paranoia" about 10 and MS snooping on you was seen in blogs, reports, etc. a ZDNet report at the time provided some interesting insights in how to tighten things in Windows 10 itself as far as your personal information goes which can prove to be invaluable at times especially if you should get nailed by some type of keylogger or other spyware!

How to secure Windows 10: The paranoid's guide

Worried sick over Windows 10's privacy settings? There's a lot you can do to lock them down, but you will lose some functionality along the way.


By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols for Between the Lines | August 5, 2015 -- 16:50 GMT (09:50 PDT)

The 2015 report can be seen in full at ​How to secure Windows 10: The paranoid's guide | ZDNet

After years of trying out freebie programs as mentioned earlier the find here of using a paid for software found to be effective was enough to finally go for the 10yr. lifetime license which is lifetime for the pc instead of the constant renewel or new program every other year.

How's this one! Speaking about Android phones earlier.

New “Stagefright” Hack Exposes 275 Million Android Phones

• by
• David Z. Morris

• @davidzmorris

March 19, 2016, 4:22 PM EDT

That one came up on Fortune magazine. New “Stagefright� Hack Exposes 275 Million Android Phones - Fortune

WD is a basic form of protection MS is simply tossing in Windows until the user gets their own or like a student on a tight budget not able to can still run without a high risk factor as long as the web activity is kept to the basic emails, social networks now however a target for phising type scams, and general searches at Wikipedia or some other information type reference sites when going to do the homework or prepping for an exam for example.

Back with the first desktops here back in the 90s following 3.1 where you didn't even know what a malware was back then and then later buying Mc A Fail in a disk set later followed by Symantec System Works on 98SE following the move up the hardware ladder just prior to getting into custom building as well as taking both college and career training courses the next move was looking at the free av until finally realizing that the need to keep trying out other addon protections separately wasn't going to work!

You could have the old MS AntiSpyware Remover on and still get nowhere fast! The softwares both paid for as well as free still came to the same conclusion of detection and removal when? "After the Fact"! A worm in an email or hitting a bug from a questionable site was still going to be a continual risk element that needed a solution. That is a solution that filtered those types of things out instantly upon detection in contrast to getting hit first.

A good firewall was something else you would be thinking about since a separate software besides the Windows Firewall option would be sought for the additional tag there. The solution which has taken nearly 20yrs. to see is now being seen with the premium full featured versions of many paid for softwares which wrap the additional layers of protections into their higher and highest priced versions for each newer release. Instead of two programs one for av the next for a firewall or even a 3rd internet program to be seen over time becoming available the updated softwares by these companies now see full gear wrapped up into one bundle.

In the past Norton being Symantec got the bad rep for being "Bloatware" since the older versions saw multiple cds like a 4 or 6 disk set in contrast to the one or two seen with most other av softwares. Once dvd media and drives improved as well as seeing larger software suits available in downloads with or without recovery media you would then see only one or two dvds. But you are now paying for things like web filtering of sites where any suspect coding is detected where sites may be blocked out entirely as well as immediate quarantines on fresh downloads as soon as you open the folder they get downloaded to since something like a Yahoo toolbar or Mc AFail trial will be found checked off to install with the app you are trying out. You see that with the regular full version paid for softwares only however.

DMGrier said:

I personally think defender is better then any other free AV for the sense of active protection. I am however a big believer in paid AV as seriously is a paid subscription of $30 a year that big of a deal?

I just started using Sophos home which is free but from what I can tell provides the same functions as paid AV. Also from what I have seen with the latest reports on AV comparatives Sophos is more highly ranked then defender in security.

As they say YMMV and some of the paid stuff doesn't test as well as some of the free stuff and vs versa in independent testing and they can and do all change positions in any given year .


And once again That being said
All this business works better than some of CrApafee's premium AV suites did *here* and some Norton products over the years .YMMV.

Again 3 Windows 10586th2 Win 10 PC's here are currently using AVAST FREE and the 2 mbam products . This dual boot 10586th2 /10291 box is using Win Defender and the 2 mbam sisters .

They all get used a lot some times 12 -16 hrs a day on one or more of them and the workstation is heavily used and all is well and has been well for years as long as they stayed out of IE X & 11 and no intrusions on Widow 10 at all so far using chrome default browsing and windows firewalls [ON] in addition to the mbam sisters and the other business I noted. YMMV

Again It never hurts to look at independent lab tests and see what shakes out and go from there .


You assume risk anytime you are on the web especially on a ( Windows Administrator Account ) and the thing between our ears is pretty important also when on the web .

Admittedly there may be better products out there than AVG/AVAST free either way that's true .

I haven't seen any statistically valid information that PAID vs FREE protection is any better as a rule that's a pretty broad brush to paint and a likely foolish generalization on always changing metrics .


This is not AV /malware protection product advice and some of this is opinion & anecdotal personal experiences on various configurations and should not be used for choosing your Antivirus and Malware protections unless you are willing to assume the risk .

Night Hawk said:

WD is a basic form of protection MS is simply tossing in Windows until the user gets their own or like a student on a tight budget not able to can still run without a high risk factor as long as the web activity is kept to the basic emails, social networks now however a target for phising type scams, and general searches at Wikipedia or some other information type reference sites when going to do the homework or prepping for an exam for example.

Back with the first desktops here back in the 90s following 3.1 where you didn't even know what a malware was back then and then later buying Mc A Fail in a disk set later followed by Symantec System Works on 98SE following the move up the hardware ladder just prior to getting into custom building as well as taking both college and career training courses the next move was looking at the free av until finally realizing that the need to keep trying out other addon protections separately wasn't going to work!

You could have the old MS AntiSpyware Remover on and still get nowhere fast! The softwares both paid for as well as free still came to the same conclusion of detection and removal when? "After the Fact"! A worm in an email or hitting a bug from a questionable site was still going to be a continual risk element that needed a solution. That is a solution that filtered those types of things out instantly upon detection in contrast to getting hit first.

A good firewall was something else you would be thinking about since a separate software besides the Windows Firewall option would be sought for the additional tag there. The solution which has taken nearly 20yrs. to see is now being seen with the premium full featured versions of many paid for softwares which wrap the additional layers of protections into their higher and highest priced versions for each newer release. Instead of two programs one for av the next for a firewall or even a 3rd internet program to be seen over time becoming available the updated softwares by these companies now see full gear wrapped up into one bundle.

In the past Norton being Symantec got the bad rep for being "Bloatware" since the older versions saw multiple cds like a 4 or 6 disk set in contrast to the one or two seen with most other av softwares. Once dvd media and drives improved as well as seeing larger software suits available in downloads with or without recovery media you would then see only one or two dvds. But you are now paying for things like web filtering of sites where any suspect coding is detected where sites may be blocked out entirely as well as immediate quarantines on fresh downloads as soon as you open the folder they get downloaded to since something like a Yahoo toolbar or Mc AFail trial will be found checked off to install with the app you are trying out. You see that with the regular full version paid for softwares only however.

Thanks for the History lesson but I was there for all that and I'm willing to entertain the proposition that WD on Win 10 may not the the sharpest knife in the drawer same for AVG and Avast free to a lesser degree but it's all maybe lot's better than nothing & one of the best defenses for exploits ,redirects and phishing should be between your ears with a minimum of common sense

originally Posted by Night Hawk
Actually at first sight when the initial "Paranoia" about 10 and MS snooping on you was seen in blogs, reports, etc. a ZDNet report at the time provided some interesting insights in how to tighten things in Windows 10 itself as far as your personal information goes which can prove to be invaluable at times especially if you should get nailed by some type of keylogger or other spyware!

Note : this reply is for anyone who cares to read it as well I don't want anybody getting they feelings hurt over it even though I'm right .

FWIW after reviewing the Windows 10 privacy and app permission settings and making some wise decisions and making sure the Windows 10 Firewall is on and whatever web/AV /malware protection and add'l firewalls you all may use are all in working order and staying OFF the web with a Windows Administrator account which is very basic and prudent. then maybe you all can take off those tin hats but dont forget to use your head if you got a lick of sense


FWIW ALL the windows privacy settings within the privacy setting app menus & toggles for all that are no brainers when you look at them and your configuration if you can't figure it all out you all probably shouldn't be on a PC that ain't locked down by an admin anyway especially if you gotta read a magazine or web zine for all that


I'm on a standard windows user account right now as usual.
Usually it's pretty hard for anthing nasty from the web the crawl off up in there and get they booties in the MBR or root drive on a std windows user account with a decent up to date secure browser & OS and even harder with some decent real time web/malware protection and that's maybe setting aside MS anti malware ,WD and resident AV /malware scanners .
Again nothing is foolproof and they got new nasties every day .


Like they say resident AV /malware scanners are usually in play after the intrusion but they can sometimes quarantine something as it comes in off the web or crawls up from hiding in an .exe or download setup.exe anyway *(even some of the free ones ) it depends on the configuration of the AV program and the user's settings .

Some folks say traditional AV programs is like lipstick on a pig now with the malware threats out there these days I'm maybe getting agnostic about all that outside of the *mbam sisters & Cookienator and the minimal configurations I use anyway

DMGrier said:

I personally think defender is better then any other free AV for the sense of active protection. I am however a big believer in paid AV as seriously is a paid subscription of $30 a year that big of a deal?

You can put in layers and layers upon layers of firewalls and malware & anti virus protections paid ,free or both and slow your box down to a crawl with all that business .....

Nothing is foolproof and maybe ~ half the time when something nasty gets in these days the AV /malware protection vendors & browsers & resident & real time web scanners and firewalls don't know S** about it yet so U azz out anyway especially in a Windows ADMIN acct .

Just figure U going to be azz out without some kind of back up anyway if something happens from the web or outside the web even a mainboard , metal or ssd hdd failure which isn't a matter of if but when on spinning metal platters and maybe something nasty crawling off up in there from a BYOD /USB too !


Never stick a strangers thing in your PC's thing (especially if it ain't got a wrapper on it and looks like it been around know what I mean ? ) and if you do before you get busy with it scan it with something reliable

*mbam sisters is mbam [malwarebytes] resident malware scanner ( free or paid ) same thing with mbam Anti exploit real time incoming malware scanner i.e, one of each if you get my drift .

This is not AV /malware protection product advice and some of this is opinion & anecdotal personal experiences on various configurations and should not be used for choosing your Antivirus and Malware protections unless you are willing to assume the risk .

I think many would be better understanding why someone would likely prefer a full featured paid for software in the long run by first understanding a few things like the end goals trying to be achieved by malwares, viruses, and other things. Part of all that is explained on an MSDN Library reference simply labeled Security Threats Since the page is rather lengthy I will outline the more critical points.

Malicious attackers normally will have a specific goal, objective, or motive for an attack on a system. These goals could be to disrupt services and the continuity of business operations by using denial-of-service (DoS) attack tools. They might also want to steal information or even steal hardware such as laptop computers. Hackers can sell information that can be useful to competitors.


In 1996, a laptop computer was stolen from an employee of Visa International that contained 314,000 credit card accounts. The total cost to Visa for just canceling the numbers and replacing the cards was $6 million.5


Attackers are not the only ones who can harm an organization. The primary threat to data integrity comes from authorized users who are not aware of the actions they are performing. Errors and omissions can cause valuable data to be lost, damaged, or altered. Non-malicious threats usually come from employees who are untrained in computers and are unaware of security threats and vulnerabilities. Users who open up Microsoft Word documents using Notepad, edit the documents, and then save them could cause serious damage to the information stored on the document.


Users, data entry clerks, system operators, and programmers frequently make unintentional errors that contribute to security problems, directly and indirectly. Sometimes the error is the threat, such as a data entry error or a programming error that crashes a system. In other cases, errors create vulnerabilities. Errors can occur in all phases of the system life cycle.


Figure 2 gives a theoretical model that can be used to determine the various threats, goals, methods, and vulnerabilities used in an attack.




Figure 2:


The following table gives some examples of the various aspects discussed above.

Threats	Motives/Goals	Methods	Security Policies
• Employees • Malicious • Ignorant • Non-employees • Outside attackers • Natural disasters • Floods • Earthquakes • Hurricanes • Riots and wars	• Deny services • Steal information • Alter information • Damage information • Delete information • Make a joke • Show off	• Social engineering • Viruses, Trojan horses, worms • Packet replay • Packet modification • IP spoofing • Mail bombing • Various hacking tools • Password cracking	• Vulnerabilities • Assets • Information and data • Productivity • Hardware • Personnel

Note that ignorant employees usually have no motives and goals for causing damage. The damage is accidental. Also, malicious attackers can deceive ignorant employees by using "social engineering" to gain entry. The attacker could masquerade as an administrator and ask for passwords and user names. Employees who are not well trained and are not security aware can fall for this.


For more information on security threats, see Appendix A.


Motives, Goals, and Objectives of Malicious Attackers


There is a strong overlap between physical security and data privacy and integrity. Indeed, the goal of some attacks is not the physical destruction of the computer system but the penetration and removal or copying of sensitive information. Attackers want to achieve these goals either for personal satisfaction or for a reward.

Corporations having a lot at stake as well as a lot of resources won't be found hesitating to invest in various security measures including the commercial forms of av and other types of security softwares for the obvious reasons like what seen in the MSDN reference there. So where does that leave the far more vulnerable individual user?

In past years before investing in the present softwares while running the freebies I would let a malware or virus run loose on purpose after first seeing everything backed up on removable or a second drive that would be uneffected simply wiping the first completely in order to see how they worked. That was a learning tool later used to manually be able to clean malwares off of the machines other people were running even years afterwards at the urk of the support staff at certain software companies wanting to push special removal tools.

Before paying out for any software to come later I also had to put the free or trial version through the loops and why I ended eventually going with the lifetime license for the one found to be just right for use here. It wasn't any complicated process. The latest test was seen just lately while not having the software running and getting with a more cleverly disguished as normal app type of bug that went on fast without notice!

The real question anyone should be asking about what they use is how effective is it? A utility like WD might be all one person needs for example while it simply won't be able to make the grade for the next to come along and why someone would then consider investing in a retail program.

In addition to the MS reference there here's something else recently updated to consider in regards to be connected to the web in general from the US-CERT or US Computer Emergency Readiness Team.

Computers are an important part of everyday life. To keep your computer and information secure, it is important to properly set up your computer before connecting to the Internet.
Why Should I Care About Computer Security?

Computers help us maintain our financial, social, and professional relationships. We use them for banking and bill paying, online shopping, connecting with our friends and family through email and social networking sites, researching data posted on the Internet, and so much more. We rely heavily on our computers to provide these services, yet we sometimes overlook our need to secure them. Because our computers play such critical roles in our lives, and we input and view so much personally identifiable information (PII) on them, it’s imperative to maintain computer security that ensures the safe processing and storage of our information.

A good number of tips are provided on the gov. page there regarding home pc security measures that anyone can take. Security Tip (ST15-003)

originally Posted by Night Hawk

Before paying out for any software to come later I also had to put the free or trial version through the loops and why I ended eventually going with the lifetime license for the one found to be just right for use here. It wasn't any complicated process. The latest test was seen just lately while not having the software running and getting with a more cleverly disguished as normal app type of bug that went on fast without notice!


The real question anyone should be asking about what they use is how effective is it? A utility like WD might be all one person needs for example while it simply won't be able to make the grade for the next to come along and why someone would then consider investing in a retail program.

RE:
All that stuff up there could be true to one extent or another but the independent lab tests for many consumer products are on the web too and lots easier to assimilate to the mind also simple is good sometimes at this level it ain't like this is big iron and all .I'll just read the lab tests for idiots charts now and then.


If i wanna play tech with something like digital discrete time signal sampling within a limited bandwidth ,codecs , code and digital word lengths auto tuning and sound shaping and all that I can do that in the digital music production studio here on the workstation or bring a project in here ( for some of that) or just listen to the THX PM3 reference sound in there @ (up to) 850 WPC RMS but it never goes that high in there but it can with no audible thd+_n that's one of the the important amplifier spec's at any given loudness level or dynamic peak in a 16/44 lower nyquist rate audio bandwidth or any audible bandwidth at all .


THD by itself is meaningless on today's modern electronics OTOH thd+ n is what you can hear ..or not if it's low enough and low thd+n is a lot harder to attain than low thd .


As much as anthing IMO with minimal protection like AVG free or WD it can be a game of chance you get tagged with malware (*if it gets though a decent browser these days )....or tagged because you were stupid .I don't need some chart from an OCD pHd ,blogger or whatever looking to get published or vendors B to B marketing dept to know all that and yes people can be greedy that's old news.






Maybe the stuff you have is OK the price was for sure but in 5 years who knows maybe the principals will pull a John MaCafee and lose thier mind & cash out and sell it to folks that don't know what they are doing or an LLC. and then what do you have?


that's why I don't like being locked in but you got all that for a real good price so if keeps working you got the deal and it probably amortized it's cost by now anyway !


You ever work with big iron or PC's or scale up to big iron on the job ?
You can take the 5th also.


I can tell you about using and learning Unix , Solaris Unix ,SAP on Unix, SAP AI , & databases we had and other applications for management functions at fortune 500 multinationals and using it all and Windows for over 30 + Years at work and that doesn't count enduring Windows continually since a 386 SX was new at home with some Unix Ubuntu in the mix. ☻


TBH This W10 stuff is a vacation and often childs play for casual users when it behaves they came a long way but it won't do anthing like scaling up to big iron can or big iron on Unix XX or XX on Unix etc. My family relation and CIO /ex programmer person says these PC's are toys so does my friend .


Nice cut and paste roll out up there probably some detailed reading too if one were interested in all that and could understand all that .

If I get tagged hard I'll just roll in a back up in less time than it would probably take to read up on all that stuff up the page there .


We all know ** Nothing is foolproof ** and it's impossible to keep up with the malware geysers anyway but no protection might be foolish and all of us may have differing requirements and comfort levels .


Banksters and business are keeping very quiet if they can get away with it and the government just lies about the magnitude of it all on thier side when something occurs and gets out to the folks .


.. I like the minimalist thing I do YMMV I'm not much of a tin hat these days .


I take precautions with business on the web beyond a few dollars or a few hundred on Pay pal any larger money and recurring payments that arent auto pay is on a stable Win 10 OS that ain't on the web or used much at all anyway outside of WU and doing my business and it's on a different PC than this Insider build it's a locked down Dell Business desktop slimline PC you ain't going to be entertaining yourself on that's it's sole purpose here .I can remote into it though if I unchain it for awhile but that's not often it only takes a minute to do a lot of stuff in there and I can run the personal and business spreadsheets in here on thier own hdd on the stable Windows or day trade in here the same way or in there when I want to actually make a trade I do it both ways but some of that is in manged funds anyway .


I been lucky (and smart on the web ) and even with any AV software that's about all you can ask for with the magnitude of malware geysers out there .It's still a game of chance after a minimum point of protection and common sense IMO.




That MaCaffe guy is maybe a head case U think or no he might know his stuff though ?



On malware and Phishing Chrome 45 and before that flags and blocks way more stuff here these days than than any thing else here outside of harmless cookies and maybe some PUP's now and then .


I'm getting agnostic about all this Win PC AV business outside of mbam real time web protection ,WD or AVG free and mbam free and moreover all that stuff beyond what I use that might slow me down or put up false positives to make me think I got something for my money .


The newer AVG free and Avast free and WD on 10 are less intrusive and annoying like all that now and seem to work OK here for now .

I don't torrent much anymore anyway or dodge the torrent malware geyser file player downloads and re directs. You might need extra strength AV + malware quarantine or intercept protection for all that business you don't know where where the torrent malware geysers been or what got up in their business they might pass along .

I can usually get my music virtually straight from the labels at a pristine lossless 24 bits from the safety masters and 24 bit digitized contact media (master tapes) from back in the day now since I'm a principal ( but not a daily grinder ) in a music production studio in my retirement .

Getting on time for lunch out here on the left coast .....................