Windows 10 install, its a long story

badrobot · 13 May 2016

NavyLCDR said:

That is completely incorrect information. An upgrade to Windows 10 in no way, shape, or form alters product keys stored in motherboard bios or the Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 product keys the upgrade came from. Run Showkey from this forum and it will prove that:
Showkey - Windows 10 Forums

and Windows 7 never stored real product keys in bios....

AFAIK, you only have one month to try Windows 10 after an upgrade to be able to go back to 7. The OP said he's been on 10 for a few weeks. Not sure though if "few" weeks means 4 or more weeks. After a month, you are locked in to 10(?). Which means, you can't clean install 7 back because your Win 7 key is already locked in to Windows 10 license certificate which Microsoft calls "digital entitlement". I've never proven this myself because I never upgraded my old OS but that's my understanding of this whole upgrade circus. An upgrade does not alter your original key but rather uses your original key just to verify that you have a genuine OS which determines your eligibility for FREE upgrade. Then you will be issued a Windows 10 digital entitlement by registering a unique ID associated with your PC’s hardware on Microsoft’s Windows activation servers.
I never said Windows 7 stores product key in BIOS. :)
When I said "embedded in motherboard", that's my short way of saying that once you upgrade to Windows 10, the Windows activation server generates a Windows 10 license certificate which associates the Windows 10 License with your specific hardware, making a product key unnecessary.

nealzibub · 13 May 2016

holy hell you guys are getting way over my head now. I might just have to roof test this machine. :)
I'll let you know what happens this weekend.......

NavyLCDR · 13 May 2016

badrobot said:

AFAIK, you only have one month to try Windows 10 after an upgrade to be able to go back to 7. The OP said he's been on 10 for a few weeks. Not sure though if "few" weeks means 4 or more weeks. After a month, you are locked in to 10(?).

That would be incorrect . You can go back and forth between Windows 7 and Windows 10 as many times as you want, as long as you want. The Windows 7 product key never gets "converted" to Windows 10 use only. Plenty of us here have tested it many times since July last year.

badrobot · 13 May 2016

NavyLCDR said:

That would be incorrect . You can go back and forth between Windows 7 and Windows 10 as many times as you want, as long as you want. The Windows 7 product key never gets "converted" to Windows 10 use only. Plenty of us here have tested it many times since July last year.

So, this isn't true then:

Windows 10 install, its a long story-windows-10-recovery-640x457.png

Maybe it will change after July 2016. Who knows. Otherwise, those Windows 10 upgrade nags that Windows 7 users are getting are useless if everyone can go back and forth.

NavyLCDR · 13 May 2016

The 30 day limit only applies to reverting back to Windows 7 using the windows.old folder. Neither the 30 day limit, nor July 29th has any affect on reinstalling Windows 7 from a DVD or USB flash drive. Once an upgrade is completed, the digital entitlement for Windows 10 is stored on Microsoft activation servers using the hardware ID of the computer - not any product key and the hardware ID is what is used to retrieve it for Windows 10 activation.

badrobot · 13 May 2016

NavyLCDR said:

The 30 day limit only applies to reverting back to Windows 7 using the windows.old folder. Neither the 30 day limit, nor July 29th has any affect on reinstalling Windows 7 from a DVD or USB flash drive. Once an upgrade is completed, the digital entitlement for Windows 10 is stored on Microsoft activation servers using the hardware ID of the computer - not any product key and the hardware ID is what is used to retrieve it for Windows 10 activation.

I guess I just have to take your word for it. I don't have to do this upgrade on my own because I have free licenses for all Windows versions right now.

NavyLCDR · 13 May 2016

nealzibub said:

holy hell you guys are getting way over my head now. I might just have to roof test this machine. :)
I'll let you know what happens this weekend.......

nealzibub,

The way to get a nice clean installation of Windows 10 is in post #18.

nealzibub · 16 May 2016

Well, I'm back in business, but it did not go anywhere close to according to plan...Briefly;

I tried making a Windows 10 USB stick, and when I went to run it, it gave me some error message about a file that was missing...sooo...
I figured, OK, I'll just go ahead and update this Windows 7 to Windows 10...until Windows 10 told me that my Windows 7 needed to be activated. OK, no problem...until Windows told me that that particular key was blocked and wouldn't let me activate it. At this point I'm getting close to tears...
My final attempt...I completely wiped out the other drive (whichever # it was, 1, 2, who cares) then yanked out the other physical drive. and started from scratch. Windows 7 install, activate, Windows 10 update. A few hours later and I'm back where I was a week ago...

Thank you to Navy LCDR and Badrobot for all your help. And if you're a newbie, like me, and you're still reading this, here's the take aways:

1) If you ever update Windows, and you put it on a different physical drive, know that YOUR BOOT FILES ARE STILL ON THE FIRST DRIVE!
2) Windows activation (at least on my particular machine) is tied to your hard drive! so once you activate it on hard drive #1, if you screw something up, you MAY NOT be able to activate it on another hard drive, even on the same MOBO.
3) When you are going to partition/format/wipe a hard drive, and the software says, 'this drive has system files on it and you may not be able to boot up after you do this' STOP. walk away. call a friend. or visit tenforums. :)

NavyLCDR · 16 May 2016

nealzibub said:

2) Windows activation (at least on my particular machine) is tied to your hard drive! so once you activate it on hard drive #1, if you screw something up, you MAY NOT be able to activate it on another hard drive, even on the same MOBO.

Completely false. Windows activation is NEVER tied to a hard drive. It is tied to the Hardware ID and the Hardware ID is 99% a result of the motherboard. Repetitive use will block a Product Key from automatic online activation - that has nothing to do with what hard drive it was activated on. When a Windows 7/8/8.1 is blocked from online activation due to repetitive use, you cannot activate Windows 10 with it. You have to re-install the Windows 7/8/8.1 that the product key is for, then use phone activation where you tell the computer voice that it is installed on only one computer and activate the Windows 7/8/8.1 via the code returned on the phone. Then you can move on to Windows 10 once that activation is tied to that computer's (actually the motherboard's) hardware ID.

After a certain period of time of not using the product key for activations (I believe 6 months) the block from automatic online activation is removed.

nealzibub · 16 May 2016

Well, all I can tell you is that when I tried to activate it yesterday, on a different hard drive, and i went through the phone activation portion (which I did previously, only 1 time) it wouldn't even give me a code, it said something to the effect of 'This transaction cannot be completed because this key has been blocked' and hung up on me. No options, no 'let me connect you with someone in a country far, far away'. 30 minutes later, back on the 'original' HD, I plugged that ridiculous 32 digit number that i received the first time around, and away we went.
You obviously have the skills to pay the bills, so I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, but my one experience yesterday dos not jive with your statement, sorry. Its certainly possible I clicked the wrong place, or chose the wrong choice, but...