Do Insiders Really Need to Download What We Already Have?

Mystere · 27 Jul 2015

Slartybart said:

Nice tht you left off the other part Couldn't find Abe's tweet, so this will have to suffice - that tweet actually said NOT ... moot now though bc we both know that the Day one path and 10240.16405.150725-1815.th1 will be downloaded

Day one patch for Windows 10 features over 1GB of fixes and improvemen - Windows 10 Forums

No, the article clearly says 10240.16384 will be downloaded and installed as the upgrade, and then an additional 1GB of patches will be applied on top of that during the upgrade process. So, in effect the build we all got on the 15th is the same final build end users will have, with additional patches on top of it.

Those upgrading will actually download 10240.16384 alongside the day one patch handsomely titled KB3074683, and will be applied automatically during the upgrade so by the time the consumer lands on the desktop, they'll be running 10240.16405.

However, that doesn't make much sense as the KB3074683 is nowhere near 1GB in size, and is pretty tiny, so this doesn't seem correct.

Slartybart · 28 Jul 2015

Mystere said:

No, the article clearly says 10240.16384 will be downloaded and installed as the upgrade, and then an additional 1GB of patches will be applied on top of that during the upgrade process. So, in effect the build we all got on the 15th is the same final build end users will have, with additional patches on top of it.

However, that doesn't make much sense as the KB3074683 is nowhere near 1GB in size, and is pretty tiny, so this doesn't seem correct.

The article clearly says The final build number consumers will update to on July 29th reads 10240.16405.150725-1815.th1 I can still read ya know .. I'm only partially blind and a tad bit senile :)

The final build number consumers will update to on July 29th reads 10240.16405.150725-1815.th1, and those keeping track will notice the delta number has increased from 16384. Those upgrading will actually download 10240.16384 alongside the day one patch handsomely titled KB3074683, and will be applied automatically during the upgrade so by the time the consumer lands on the desktop, they'll be running 10240.16405.

Funny how different people read the same thing, eh? I see 'download along side' and 'the upgrade version people see on 29 July will be 10240.16405', you see downloaded and installed as the update. Whatever the KB really is it will be installed during and as part of the upgrade.

Semantics perhaps, but I think it was a time constraint, they just couldn't build and test a new delta before (just checked the time to be sure) tomorrow :)

Anyway..... I guess that horse is dead now - I won't beat it any more, the poor thing.

But yeah, KB3074683 as the Day One patch is wrong - that KB fixes what KB3074681 broke.

just-a-note: the Day One KB is only 500 MB - it expands to 1 GB during the install.

Kevzombie · 28 Jul 2015

So I was an insider and reformatted my PC with 8.1 to get ready for the upgrade. Does the early upgrade for insiders only work if you have the 1024 build installed ( I didn't reinstall it because I saw no need if my main OS was going to get replaced with it anyway)?

CountMike · 28 Jul 2015

Kevzombie said:

So I was an insider and reformatted my PC with 8.1 to get ready for the upgrade. Does the early upgrade for insiders only work if you have the 1024 build installed ( I didn't reinstall it because I saw no need if my main OS was going to get replaced with it anyway)?

Scuttlebutt and indications are that insiders with last (10240) installed will get it first. One day to go.

SaggyMaggyPoo · 28 Jul 2015

sgage said:

I know - the sheer amount of churning this issue is rather absurd. I think the suspense must be getting to some folks...

I agree. So many questions that no-one outside MS can know the answer to, and so many opportunities to 'place your bet'.

It's a bit like the newspapers over the summer, when they're looking for stories to fill the pages. They'll find something they can worry away at and just keep worrying

SaggyMaggyPoo · 28 Jul 2015

Slartybart said:

Nope, it says that the upgrade requires a 3 GB download.

10.0.240 is not the upgrade - that has also been explicit stated by MS. Couldn't find Abe's tweet, so this will have to suffice

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) View on Twitter

It says nothing about GWX - which is downloading bits for the upgrade.

It also says nothing about a lot of things, whether the moon is made of cheese or not.

The thing people need to keep in mind is that the production release is different from the Insider releases. While the code will match for a short period of time, they are governed by different licenses, EULA, and terms of privacy.

I'm sure you've seen this flow chart that someone smarter than me took the time to work up.

Attachment 26186

Notice that if you installed a Preview release on top of a valid OS, you'll get the the upgrade.
Is it official from MS, nope.

So here's something official:

Source

This is very clear and adds a bit of "Oh man did I have that wrong". The key is and always has been a qualifying OS.
The only way an Insider release becomes a production release is if you opt-out of the Insider program - otherwise the Win10 release that insiders get that matches the production release is, and I quote just another build for Insiders, and those who stay in the program will simply get the next (sic Insider) build after as well.

One of the confusing points is "What about people multi-booting with a clean install of an Insider release". I don't know, other than for a short time the Insider release will be equivalent to the production release .. but again it's just another Insider build subject to the next development Insider build. An interesting side effect of 10.0.240 is that when I installed it, the OS was licensed to my local account on my Win8.1 install, it was a Retail license, but the key was the Insider build key. I'll be interested in seeing what slimgr.vbs tells me about the next Insider build (which should equal the production build)

I expect that the next Insider build after matching the production code will come rather quickly so that production code and development code do not match for very long. Buldfeed shows that 10.0.10508 is the highest numbered release being worked on - probably not the next one offered, but there's a lot of work going on past 10.0.10240.

Anyway..... if you read all of that you're crazier than I am

An interesting read and - for me at least - makes things a lot clearer.

Slartybart · 29 Jul 2015

Any thrill seekers out there willing to test a crazy theory?

This is not for the timid - it is theory only.

You will lose the Insider Program associated with one of your MS accounts until the program is reopened.
You might invalidate a key - or require phone activation to get your previous OS activated again.

If you only have one MS account associated with the Insider program - DO NOT try this.

On your insider build 10.0.240.1634
Leave the Insider program (Stop insider builds) - caution, the program is closed at them moment, so you can't join again for a while.
Enter a new product key from your existing Win8.1 or Win7 install.
Will it activate?

I'm out of test beds and valid OS keys, otherwise I'd give it a shot.

alphanumeric · 29 Jul 2015

How does one go from the insider build to the consumer release? I know you leave the Insider program to do that, but I was expecting some kind of notification from Microsoft that now is the time to do it? I haven't seen anything on my Windows 10 PC to say do it now etc? I keep running windows update and it just reports all up to date? No new builds etc?

Boozad · 29 Jul 2015

Slartybart said:

On your insider build 10.0.240.1634
Leave the Insider program (Stop insider builds) - caution, the program is closed at them moment, so you can't join again for a while.
Enter a new product key from your existing Win8.1 or Win7 install.
Will it activate?

I'm out of test beds and valid OS keys, otherwise I'd give it a shot.

Wouldn't it be an idea to try and enter another key first to see if it accepts it? If it does then you should be able to leave the Insider program and remain activated.

Slartybart · 29 Jul 2015

alphanumeric said:

How does one go from the insider build to the consumer release? I know you leave the Insider program to do that, but I was expecting some kind of notification from Microsoft that now is the time to do it? I haven't seen anything on my Windows 10 PC to say do it now etc? I keep running windows update and it just reports all up to date? No new builds etc?

It's a bit wonky as I understand things.

If you installed the TP 240 over a qualifying OS and kept it up to date - i.e upgrade, then

Stay in the Insider program and you're still running Preview code, the next development release gets installed though WU, just as it's always been in the program.
Leave the Insider program and your're running production code - real WU get applied, not Tech Preview
If a valid key isn't entered, the OS still runs, but this code will eventually expire and stop booting.

How can you tell? dunno yet, but I would think the partial key reported by slmgr would either represent your qualifying OS key or some derivation of it - not 3V66T (240 TP partial key).

I was expecting some update on the Tech Preview I have installed, but after playing around a bit, the versions seem to match (for now anyway). In other words, Insiders already have the production code and if you upgraded your OS during the test phase, all you have to do is leave the Insider pgm.

If you tested Win10 by clean installing it - that's another story. Win10 has to get a valid key from someplace and the only keys entered during the TP were TP keys.

From the TP install 10.0.10240 on my machine
slmgr /dlv reports Software service as 10.0.10240.16384

Do Insiders Really Need to Download What We Already Have?-w10240slmgrdlv.png

Note: the partial key reported is the tail of the TP 240 key

msinfo32 reports Hardware Abstraction Level as 10.0.10240.16392

Do Insiders Really Need to Download What We Already Have?-w10240sysinfohal.png

I've looked at the side-by-side files and there doesn't seem to be anything more to download (WU).
... I'll post more after completing my other testing of the ISO downloaded using the Media Creation Tool - just reorg'd the Win7 test box, but that's as far as I got on that test.