Recommended location for 'Programs' folder

AVguy · 10 Nov 2016

OK, so I just got through identifying that my 128GB SSD c:/ drive is failing and I'm waiting on HP shipping me a replacement.
When I opted to go with an SSD for my HP Z Book G2 I didn't accurately factor the disk cost of Windows 10 Pro and my 40+ various applications. I ended up with only about 12GB of free space on that drive and had already successfully installed and run several apps from a 'Programs' folder I created on my 'E' drive - a 1TB HDD.
So, when I install the replacement SSD I ideally want to install/run pretty much all programs (except MS Office 2010 and AutoCAD Lt) on my 'E' drive. I had done a bit of research on this issue and on MS forums in particular (yeah .... I know) found various 'statements' that this is not recommended. Anyone care to put some solid reasoning or evidence forward?
I'm just really wanting to make an informed decision on doing this. Thanks!

dalchina · 11 Nov 2016

Hi, I have over 400 progs installed on a 256Gb SSD, all my personal data on another disk.
I have roughly 180Gb free on my SSD. So I'm using about 70Gb of that.
I've not taken any special precautions to reduce space otherwise, although there are some things you can do.
I do have hibernation available (but don't use it) so there's a large hiberfil.sys file.
My paging file is on a second disk.

On that basis, I would look at where your space has gone... unless some of your programs are very large e.g. specialist or games. (E.g. Windirstat (free)).

As you seem to have two disks, it's fine to install programs on your second drive, especially non-critical ones. The difficulty arises if a disk fails. Imagine you have a program nominally installed on E: and that drive fails. You may have folders on C: (many programs create those) and almost certainly registry entries and start menu entries.
Thus uninstalling becomes an issue.

Disk imaging (which you should use, we strongly and repeatedly recommend it) would have to be coordinated for both disks.

If you had been using this, you could have recreated your working environment by restoring an image to your new SSD.
We recommend e.g. Macrium Reflect (free) + its boot medium + external storage.

AVguy · 11 Nov 2016

I'm not too surprised at my disk usage with the particular programs I'm running. Also I have 16GB of RAM installed so I assume the page file will be a couple of GBs. (Cant' check that right now.) I have read elsewhere that if the page file is moved to a different drive (mine was not) and no page file exists on c:/ that Windows will create a new file equal in size to RAM value on boot. That seems kinda rude?
I take your point about needing to image both disks if 'Program Files' exists on a different disk to the OS. By 'coordinated' imaging do you just mean imaging each disk one after the other or is there an option in Macrium to image multiple disks.
I also had a security related concern regarding the 'Program Files' folder location that someone highlighted on another forum. This does all sound a bit tenuous but I'd be interested in your views:
If you try to overwrite something in Program Files, then that will require that you agree to allow it to happen. Anything can overwrite executables outside of that area without any warning, at least AFAIK. So that would be an easy way to vector a virus into a system. It can't by itself try to get something into Program Files, because that would trigger a warning, and you'd be suspicious because you don't know why this is happening. OTOH, they could update an executable outside Program Files such that it prompted you for admin rights, showing some bogus but much easier to believe reason, need to update this or that. Once you agree then that modified program can now do whatever it wants, and can then update more protected files. It won't try to do anything then, so as not to raise suspicions. But the next time you run one of those modified system files, it can do even more damage because it's assumed to be safe and won't even trigger a warning when it does things.
a) I'm not convinced the above is accurate,
b) If it is accurate I'm wondering if just copying the original folder, (i.e. properties) would extend any protection?
I'm going to go find Macrium now .......

dalchina · 11 Nov 2016

H, Macrium supports creating a system image- that's the group of partitions for Windows including the OS, System, EFI (if EFI) and Recovery. That can be extended to include any other partitions on the same disk, but not, it seems, on a different disk.

Thus it would be wise to create and update both images at the same time (although not absolutely essential - it would just be messy to sort out what you'd restored if you didn't do that).

You would be installing programs manually on E: - don't consider a registry hack to change the default installation path to that- that's a bad idea.

AVguy · 11 Nov 2016

That's helpful, thank you for your response.

Having spent the last hour or so in Macrium Reflect I'm also now better informed. I originally started this thread regarding the 'Programs Files' folder and as I don't want to break any forum etiquette here I'm going to pursue my Macrium questions in my original thread concerning a failing SSD : https://www.tenforums.com/general-support/69370-windows-10-pro-failing-boot-hp-z-book-17-a.html

Again, many thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

edwar · 11 Nov 2016

99% of all my programs, including several Adobe CC programs and all of the MS office programs I've used until Office 365 (It doesn't give you the option to install to any other drive), are installed on my D drive. People have been saying this for years, "Programs should be installed on the C drive", and it is a bunch of BS. If the OS is installed and running right and you don't have any faulty hardware, like a faulty hard drive, you can install program to any drive you like.
If the program allows it to be installed to some other drive. Most do, some don't.

AVguy · 11 Nov 2016

edwar said:

99% of all my programs, including several Adobe CC programs and all of the MS office programs I've used until Office 365 (It doesn't give you the option to install to any other drive), are installed on my D drive. People have been saying this for years, "Programs should be installed on the C drive", and it is a bunch of BS. If the OS is installed and running right and you don't have any faulty hardware, like a faulty hard drive, you can install program to any drive you like.
If the program allows it to be installed to some other drive. Most do, some don't.

Yup, that's always been my assumption and if we just put any technical knowledge, or lack of, aside for the moment pure logic suggests that there wouldn't be an option to select an installation location from a list of available disks if there were compelling reasons to always install on the same disk as the OS. The installer could simply find that location if it were critical. Just wanted to get a bit of a consensus on this because as you say there is a lot unsupported info out there about this issue.

CountMike · 12 Nov 2016

Even when you install a program/game on secondary HDD some parts are also left on OS disk but a particular SW would not benefit of SSD's speed as much or not at all. I did that in the past even when I had only HDDs. Always kept C: only for OS so I don't loose much if something goes screwy.