Bootup Takes Two Tries

Wynona · 31 Oct 2014

gregrocker said:

If you installed with the other drive unplugged then it wouldn't configure a Dual Boot menu, you'd need to choose the HD to boot by setting preferred HD as primary HD and then setting HD as first boot device - both in BIOS setup. Then trigger the other using the one-time BIOS Boot Menu key.

Problem is, Greg, that HP has pretty much closed the BIOS to me. The secondary drive will only show up in the Boot Options and then will only boot to Windows 8 (even if I select the other one).

gregrocker said:

If the screenshot you posted shows 8.1 booted, then it would be helpful to see another with 10 booted. It's System Reserved partition should be marked Active confirming it is booting itself and not booting off of 8.1. If it's not then something is awry. Remove 8.1 drive to see if 10 drive will boot on its own, as I believe you said is the case.

I am calling the original bay where the original HDD was the Primary Drive/Bay and the other one the Secondary Drive/Bay. Windows 8.1 is in the Primary and Windows 10 is in the Secondary. So, yeppers, Windows 10 (still in the Secondary Bay) will boot on its own with the Primary drive removed.

gregrocker said:

To add a Windows Dual Boot menu while keeping both drives independently bootable, install EasyBCD to Primary (8.1) to add the other OS by name, type and drive letter as seen from 8.1.

OK, I will try that. Is it supposed to only find the Primary drive on its own and I add the Secondary drive? I have EasyBCD installed but haven't done anything else yet.

I am assuming I can name the Windows 8.1 drive Windows 811 and the Windows 10 accordingly?

As many things as we've tried, I will be surprised if EasyBCD solves the "two boots" situation, but I can still hope.

Wynona · 31 Oct 2014

Slartybart said:

Well I'll feel really silly if this turns out to be the cause.

Go into BIOS and make the F10 and F12 delay 30 seconds (currently 0)

Attachment 7767

Then tell me exactly what the msg is and where it is (lower left or upper left)

After looking at the BIOS screen you posted, I thought the F10 and F12 delay might be interesting to research (don't ask why, it just jumped out and said - look at me)

I searched for HP dv7-1245dx BIOS 10 and F12 delay and found a few service manuals, all with 1245dx missing.

I looked at one and found this:

Using Advanced Setup Utility Features

This guide describes the Setup Utility features recommended for all users. For more information about the Setup Utility features recommended for advanced users only, refer to Help and Support, which is accessible only when the computer is in Windows.

The Setup Utility features available for advanced users include a hard drive self-test, a Network Service Boot, and settings for boot order preferences.

The “<F12> to boot from LAN” message that is displayed in the lower-left corner of the screen each time the computer is started or restarted in Windows is the prompt for a Network Service Boot.

The “Press <ESC> to change boot order” message that is displayed in the lower-left corner of the screen each time the computer is started or restarted in Windows is the prompt to change the boot order

Is that the message you see?

Bill
.

What I see is: Press the Esc key for Startup Menu. I had already given F10/F12 5 seconds so I could be sure to hit the Esc key when it showed up. So now it's up to 20 seconds, which is as high as it will go.

So, hitting Esc gets me to the first screen of the Startup menu; F10 takes me directly to the Startup Menu; F12 does absolutely nothing, no matter how many times I poke it.

It's late and I'm sleepy (which makes me prone to mistakes), so I'm going to dreamland and dream about this dratted laptop all night. :)

gregrocker · 31 Oct 2014

Yes, EasyBCD will detect the drive installed upon but you'll need to select the other OS type (use 8 for 10) to see if it will auto-detect the drive letter and if not (or it's incorrect) set it manually as seen from 8.

Did you run Automatic Repair with only the drive connected that's taking twice to boot? If not I'd do that first to see if it will sort the double boot. Then either way I'd connect the other drive and run it again as it sometimes will configure a Dual Boot while sorting the bcd.

Wynona · 01 Nov 2014

gregrocker said:

Yes, EasyBCD will detect the drive installed upon but you'll need to select the other OS type (use 8 for 10) to see if it will auto-detect the drive letter and if not (or it's incorrect) set it manually as seen from 8.

Did you run Automatic Repair with only the drive connected that's taking twice to boot? If not I'd do that first to see if it will sort the double boot. Then either way I'd connect the other drive and run it again as it sometimes will configure a Dual Boot while sorting the bcd.

Good morning, Greg

I just ran Automatic Repair and it said it couldn't fix my drive; probably because there's nothing wrong with it. :) At any rate, I went to Advanced and wound up going in circles. HP again, probably.

This laptop is nothing if not consistent. Every drive (three so far) I put in the computer takes two tries to boot, no matter which bay they're in, which combination they're in or whether there're one or two drives.

Just as an FYI, I've learned that a "restart" doesn't take two tries (possibly because this was second/good boot to begin with?) so I use that a lot while working with this issue.

Now on to EasyBCD . . .

Slartybart · 01 Nov 2014

Wynona said:

What I see is: Press the Esc key for Startup Menu. I had already given F10/F12 5 seconds so I could be sure to hit the Esc key when it showed up. So now it's up to 20 seconds, which is as high as it will go.

So, hitting Esc gets me to the first screen of the Startup menu; F10 takes me directly to the Startup Menu; F12 does absolutely nothing, no matter how many times I poke it.

It's late and I'm sleepy (which makes me prone to mistakes), so I'm going to dreamland and dream about this dratted laptop all night. :)

Ok good, can you take a pic with your camera? I want to be sure what the Startup Menu means.

Sweet dreams

- but you're probably awake by now :)

Bill
.

Wynona · 01 Nov 2014

Slartybart said:

Ok good, can you take a pic with your camera? I want to be sure what the Startup Menu means.

Bill
.

Here ya go. Just happened to have one hanging around in my Pictures directory.

As you can see, there's no F12 listed, for whatever reason. And I'm wondering what would happen if I press F12 from this screen.

Wynona · 01 Nov 2014

Slartybart said:

Maybe I'm still confused about what occurs and the double boot statement. I based my "hit a key" comment on this:

Wynona said:

.....
Whoops! No, no, no, I don't have to press Esc to boot . . . In order to boot from DVD or Jump Drive, I have to press Esc. I just thought it strange that the boot failure barely showed the "Press Esc, etc. . . . message, but the successful boot showed the message long enough to be understood and acted upon. Sorry I misled you.
.....

Good morning, Bill,

I started to reply to this message a day or so back, but got sidetracked by something and I guess I never sent it. So, here's (hopefully) exactly what happens from a cold boot:

1. Press power key
2. Computer HDD starts to spin up
3. HP Logo shows with very, very, very short "Press Esc" (a split, split, split second's worth)
4. The "circle chasing itself" shows for two or three seconds, then locks up.
5. Execute hard shutdown by pressing and holding down power key
6. Give the computer a few seconds to be sure HDD isn't spinning
7. Press power key
8. Computer HDD starts to spin up
9. HP Logo shows with normal Press Esc for the startup menu (set at 5 seconds currently)
10. Press Esc to get into BIOS
or
11. The "circle chasing itself" shows and boot-up proceeds to the lock screen.

I go through this process every time I go through a cold boot, whether I want to boot from CD/DVD, HDD, Jump/Flash drive, etc., whether there is one drive in the Primary bay or the Secondary bay, or whether both bays are occupied.

This process never varies except that if I restart the computer after it's been booted, boot-up proceeds as per normal.

Also, in Step 3. above, if I want to enter BIOS and even if I am fast enough to hit Esc, I cannot get into the BIOS at that point.

Slartybart · 02 Nov 2014

Thanks Wynona,

You say you hit ESC after a hard power down ... how come?

The screen says "Enter - continue startup".
Have you tried that? Probably, but the description you gave and the picture indicate to me that the firmware thinks a repair is needed. F11 is probably a dead end since the machine was originally Vista and it would look for the HP recovery partition that contains the Vista install files - that partition is long gone.

Ok, try this!
After seeing if pressing enter gets you past this - you might get another pre-boot menu asking you what type of startup
Normal,
Safe mode
Safe mode with...
Safe mode with...

This is the screen I would expect after reading your description - the hard shutdown should flag something and prompt you for startup options. That's why I wanted to see the Startup screen you see ... you see

Have you tried pulling the battery - run on AC only?

The next thing to try is resetting the CMOS battery.
On some machines you
1) remove the Laptop battery
2) disconnect the AC power
3) Hold the power button down for a full 2 minutes
4) connect the AC
5) power up AC only

on other machines you have to physically pull the CMOS battery and let the residual charge on the board dissipate for 20-30 minutes.
I'll post something after you try the above method. You would take the same power cautions + discharge any electrostatic buildup on your person before messing around with the CMOS battery (or any internal component)

The service manual I previously posted probably has the needed information. Still some CMOS batteries are a bit tricky to get out and the manuals only say "Remove the CMOS battery (also called a coin battery)" but aren't real clear on what it takes to accomplish the task.

It's possible that you need a new CMOS battery - they are only reported to last 5 or 6 years. The batteries are relatively inexpensive and you can get them at almost any tech shop. Just be sure to get the same type - it's stamped on the battery so it's easy to get the correct replacement.

+edit

Sometimes keyboard (Kbd) keys get sticky after a few years. It's possible that a key is just sticky enough to cause startup to think you're pressing a key. I'd expect that you might notice this when Windows is up an running, but I'm trying to think of things that might cause the issue on your machine as I now understand it.

If you use an external Kbd, disconnect it and try a boot.

If you only use the laptop Kbd:

With the machine powered down and all power removed (battery and AC) turn the laptop over and tap the bottom to dislodge any debris from the keyboard. Compressed air or a vacuum might clean it a bit more.

After cleaning the keyboard, turn the machine right side up and tap each key a few times - do every key.

-edit

Bill
.

Slartybart · 02 Nov 2014

Does the dv7 have a small power button next to the main power button? I asked this before, but I forget if you answered it.

The HP logo in your step 3 got me to thinking that the HP modified BIOS expects either the Recovery partition or the HP_TOOLS partition to exist. When I looked at the HP download page for your machine, I didn't see anything regarding the HP_TOOLS part-but then OEMs are notorious for not keeping their own pages up to date.

As I think about it, the F11 option at startup depends on the Recovery part. If that part is removed, the F11 key no longer works ... so I'm leaning more towards the HP_TOOLS partition.

On my dv6, HP_TOOLS contained the Quickweb OS (Linux) and the UEFI diagnostics.

Your machine might not have either, but here is the information from dv6-6c10us

Bootup Takes Two Tries-dv6-buttons-b.png

(3) QuickWeb button: Opens QuickWeb (select models only).

When the computer is off or in Hibernation, press the button to open HP QuickWeb.
When the computer is in Microsoft Windows, press the button to open the default Web browser.
When the computer is in HP QuickWeb, press the
button to open the Web browser.

QuickWeb allows you to browse the Internet, communicate with Skype, and explore other HP QuickWeb programs. When the computer is off or in Hibernation, you can press the QuickWeb button to access these features without waiting for the operating system to start.

NOTE: For more information, refer to HP QuickWeb (select models only) on page 16 and to the HP QuickWeb software Help. If your computer does not have HP QuickWeb software, the button opens the Web browser.

The HP_TOOLS part is easy to create as a test, it's a small (3->5 GB partition - FAT32 formatted). If you have ample free space on your machine and have not exceeded the MBR 4 partition limit you can shrink C.

Please work only on Win8.1 until any progress is made. Post a Disk Mgmt screen shot showing the current disk configuration. That will make it easier to discuss and advise changes to the disk (if necessary).

Switching drives and OSes makes it more difficult to troubleshoot (not that we were getting anywhere anyway

- but we still might as information is clarified).

For the duration, remove the Win10 SSD from the laptop and always boot to the HDD Win8.1 - this also gets any side concerns about dual boot and which drive the machine uses to bootstrap out of the equation. You can always work on those after this issue is either solved or one of us cries UNCLE.

Thanks,

Bill
.

Wynona · 02 Nov 2014

Slartybart said:

Thanks Wynona,

You say you hit ESC after a hard power down ... how come?

Bill
.

No. Note the or between the last two items:

10. Press Esc to get into BIOS

or

11. [I don't press Esc to get to the BIOS and] The "circle chasing itself" shows and boot-up proceeds to the lock screen.