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  1. Join Date : Feb 2016
    Posts : 18
    Windows 8
       09 Feb 2016 #381

    Windows 10 freezes randomly


    JW0914 said: View Post
    Your issues are due to drivers and you need to clean install, following the proper clean install procedure. You can view my prior posts, as I no longer have the patience to explain this to a new person every few days like a broken record.
    Thanks JW0914, it seems very clear that this is a driver issue. Don't worry I do not blame you for not wanting to repeat the same solution; I can read back into this thread. Now I am moderately computer literate but having to do a clean install is a real pain and not the way this is sold. I would not mind if Microsoft issued warnings but they do not. Do upgrade for free they say, it is simple and any one can do it. When starting they tell you it may take some while, when finished they tell you 'all your files are exactly where you left them'. What they do not say is 'bear in mind there is every chance that this will not work and you may be left with a load of problems' or 'your files are exactly where you left them, but you may not be able to use them!!'

    It is now my decision as to whether I burn my boats and do a clean install and have all the aggravation of reinstalling programmes or revert to the operating system I was happy with (if I can), and wait until it is no longer supported by which time I will be in the market for a new laptop anyway.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 70
    Window 10 Home
       09 Feb 2016 #382

    It really irritating that I have to deal with problems like this. Windows 10 is going to cause me to get my first Apple computer since 1984. The iPad, and iPhone started this and Windows 10 is going to finish it.

    I am having the same issue in a new system I assembled.
    ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z mobo
    AMD FX 9590 Black Edition CPU, it is not overclocked, doesn't need it
    ADATA XPG DDR3 1600 PC3-128000 8X2 This set is on the approved ASUS list for this mobo
    R9 380 GPU
    I have the Realtek Audio chipset disabled as I am using the AMD HD audio from the Radeon card
    I am currently using a new WD 1TB HDD for the boot drive.
    Running the latest BIOS for this mobo, and ALL! of the drivers and updates are current.
    I did start out with a Nvidia GT640 GPU from the old system. It was still getting updates from Nvidia, for Windows 10 no less, but it would not work for long without BSOD. A checked in the Nvidia forums there are reported problems with 600, and 700 series GPU's and Windows 10 so I switched to a Radeon with cured that problem.
    I am not a gamer my system is the heart of my AV system. The Radeon feeds the master monitor via a DVI-D connection. The LG HDTV panel is fed via an HDMI cable to an Onkyo AVR which handles all of the switching and decoding.

    I see nothing in the event monitor, I have done all of the diagnostics listed on the thread. Plus stability bench marking nothing. However the vexing problem I see is listed in the device manager. To see it you have to go into safe mode and go into the device manager with Admin privileges. Everytime I have this hang the device driver for the displays has a alert flag on it. When I look at what is there it only shows one monitor, the master monitor. These device drivers are not the drivers associated with the graphics card, these are part of the Windows 10 OS. The drivers report as being the latest and greatest. So I unistalled it completely and rebooted out of safe mode which reloaded them. When I checked the device manager from this side it showed both of my monitors and everything was OK for awhile. after a few days it froze again and I checked, in safe mode, and the display drivers where right back where they where. At this point I don't have any solution. I think we are going to have to wait for a major update. Windows 10 has hidden safe mode here is how you have to get there now. Right click the button that passes for the start button in the lower left hand corner, then, Settings => Update & Security =>in the left column Recovery => Advanced Startup => Restart now =>startup settings=>this will give you a numbered list of options I use #5 Safemode with networking. You are supposed to be able to enable the F8 key in the BIOS settings for safemode but doing it the above way is less likely to get you in trouble if you have never been in your BIOS console. In safemode you can go to the device manger and open it in admin mode and you can see if any of your device drivers are flagged.

    Oh how I wish I had loaded this system with Widows 7, but Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI) was recompiled for W8, and again for W10 and makes for vastly superior sound if you have a system that can use it, and I do.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       09 Feb 2016 #383

    Tully said: View Post
    I think your reply Is totally uncalled for!

    If you don't have time to help someone that is looking for help on a FORUM that is for helping users.
    Then you should no be on the FORUM!

    It is a complex operation for anyone that hasn't had a lot of computer time!

    It was MONTHS before anyone on this site would recognized that it was a Win10 problem & mot a hardware problem!

    I am certainly going to bring this to Brinks Attention!

    Very RUDE!

    Tully
    .
    First, why is it someone else's responsibility to do an end user's research for them? If an end user doesn't want to research their own issues, there are places and services they can pay to have them do it for the end user. Considering this forum offers a way to search this thread, in combination with the ability to easily see a specific user's posts, asking an end user to do so is not rude... it's called having personal responsibility.

    Second, the prior user's issue, and most others', is not a Windows 10 issue, it is a drivers issue. Windows 10 works fine, albeit there are a few bugs, most of which are environment specific and, again, due to drivers. Drivers are completely separate from Windows, regardless of version, and it is not, nor should it be, Microsoft's job to ensure users don't have issues with the drivers.... that responsibility lies solely with the component manufacturers.

    Third, an end user refusing to do the most basic form of research posts to this thread, and many others, on a daily basis. If an end user doesn't want to be told bluntly that it's their computer and to have personal responsibility, then they can avoid it altogether by having personal responsibility.

    I understand many, if not most, are not power users, just as I understand the blind keep trying to lead the blind when it comes to Windows 10. There is only 1 reason for the need to upgrade to Windows 10, of which is so your motherboard's hardware ID can be registered with Microsoft so the end user can receive their free upgrade. Once upgraded, an end user should perform a clean install, especially if using a PC manufactured prior to July 2014. It is not anyone's responsibility, but the end user's, to research the proper way to install an OS, and the failure of end users to do so is the cause of 90%+ of the issues experienced with Windows 10.

    Even with all of that being said, I'm always more than happy to help someone; however, after responding to more than 50 posts on this thread and others stating the same thing over, and over, and over again it becomes irksome. I don't believe anyone finds repeating themselves more than three times as pleasant and not irritating or frustrating... especially when most users never bother to read 10 posts back from the last post, and is insanely frustrating when not more than a few posts back one can find the same information they're asking about.
    Last edited by JW0914; 09 Feb 2016 at 13:37.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 70
    Window 10 Home
       09 Feb 2016 #384

    One thing I have found is Nvidia has a piss poor uninstaller. after uninstalling from the control panel I still had to go into the registry and the DLL files to get it all.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       09 Feb 2016 #385

    Spig10 said: View Post
    Thanks JW0914, it seems very clear that this is a driver issue. Don't worry I do not blame you for not wanting to repeat the same solution; I can read back into this thread. Now I am moderately computer literate but having to do a clean install is a real pain and not the way this is sold. I would not mind if Microsoft issued warnings but they do not. Do upgrade for free they say, it is simple and any one can do it. When starting they tell you it may take some while, when finished they tell you 'all your files are exactly where you left them'. What they do not say is 'bear in mind there is every chance that this will not work and you may be left with a load of problems' or 'your files are exactly where you left them, but you may not be able to use them!!'

    It is now my decision as to whether I burn my boats and do a clean install and have all the aggravation of reinstalling programmes or revert to the operating system I was happy with (if I can), and wait until it is no longer supported by which time I will be in the market for a new laptop anyway.
    I can understand your point of view, however the most likely reasons for Microsoft to not address this are twofold: first, it's not their responsibility and second, they assume end users will take the 15 - 30 minutes to research how to install an OS. Microsoft spent millions doing this for users with Windows 8, and, like any profit driven business, need to justify such an expenditure. It would be different if Microsoft was charging users for Windows 10, but they're not.

    Windows 10 is far better OS than Windows 8.1 and is vastly improved to work efficiently on both old to new hardware. Windows has always been meant to be installed as a clean install, and has always been recommended to do so. Technically, you can upgrade to a new version of Windows and not experience issues, however it requires tens of hours to do so, as you would need to manually comb the entire OS for the sys and dll files for previously installed system critical drivers. In comparison, it takes ~4 hours to perform a clean install properly and reinstall all drivers and software.

    • It really comes down to a simple question: Would an end user rather spend ~4 hours to do an install the right way, or would they rather do it the easy way and then spend hours troubleshooting the resulting problems they're almost guaranteed to have.
      • In other words, it's simply far more efficient, and less of a headache, to reinstall Windows and do it properly.


    transmaster said: View Post
    My system is the heart of my AV system. and is running the latest BIOS, with most current drivers and updates
    • AMD R9 380 GPU
      • R9 feeds the master monitor via a DVI-D connection,
      • LG HDTV panel is fed via an HDMI cable to an Onkyo AVR (which handles all of the switching and decoding).
        • I see nothing in the event monitor, I have done all of the diagnostics listed on the thread; plus stability benchmarking shows nothing.

    The vexing problem I see is listed in the device manager:

    To see it you have to go into safe mode and go into the device manager with Admin privileges. Every time I have this hang the device driver for the displays has a alert flag on it. When I look at what is there it only shows one monitor, the master monitor. These device drivers are not the drivers associated with the graphics card, these are part of the Windows 10 OS.

    The drivers report as being the latest, so I uninstalled it completely and rebooted out of safe mode which reloaded them. When I checked the device manager from this side it showed both of my monitors and everything was OK for awhile. After a few days it froze again, and, after checking in safe mode, the display drivers were right back where they were.

    You are supposed to be able to enable the F8 key in the BIOS settings for safemode but doing it the above way is less likely to get you in trouble if you have never been in your BIOS console. In safemode you can go to the device manger and open it in admin mode and you can see if any of your device drivers are flagged.

    Your issue is a result of not clean installing, or if you did, not doing it properly.

    You can try the following, but if it doesn't solve it, you're going to need to clean install, following the proper clean install procedure.

    1. Go to the component manufacturer's website and download the full, offline version of the installer for your GPU. Once it'd completely downloaded (should be a package exceeding 250MB in size, and if it's only a few MB, then you've downloaded the online installer)
    2. While booted into Windows, non-safe mode, open up device manager, select the graphics card, select uninstall and tick the box at the bottom that states to uninstall the installation files.
      • Prior to rebooting, disconnect fully from the internet (if you use wifi, disable it, if using a LAN cable, unplug it)

    3. Once rebooted, open up device manager and verify it shows only a basic microsoft video driver and wait ~5 minutes, as you need to verify Windows isn't going to auto install it's own drivers again (which shouldn't occur if you ticked the box to delete the install files).
    4. Once you've verified Windows is not going to auto reinstall the drivers, open up the offline installer you downloaded and reboot once the install has completed.

    If that doesn't solve your issue, you're probably going to need to clean install. Also, F8 during POST hasn't functioned since Windows 8 due to the lag it causes. You can enable it via bcdedit, but you will lose the ability for fast boot.

    transmaster said: View Post
    One thing I have found is Nvidia has a piss poor uninstaller. after uninstalling from the control panel I still had to go into the registry and the DLL files to get it all.

    I believe Nvidia offers a cleanup utility.... if not, google "Nvidia cleanup utility" and see if someone's made one. Removing registry entries isn't advised as it doesn't guarantee the files have actually been removed, only the registry entries to those files have been removed. This is problematic since the dll's could still be loaded, even without registry entires.
    Last edited by JW0914; 09 Feb 2016 at 13:59.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Join Date : Feb 2016
    Posts : 18
    Windows 8
       09 Feb 2016 #386

    Windows 10 freezes randomly


    JW0914 said: View Post
    I can understand your point of view, however the most likely reasons for Microsoft to not address this are twofold: first, it's not their responsibility and second, they assume end users will take the 15 - 30 minutes to research how to install an OS. Microsoft spent millions doing this for users with Windows 8, and, like any profit driven business, need to justify such an expenditure. It would be different if Microsoft was charging users for Windows 10, but they're not.

    Windows 10 is far better OS than Windows 8.1 and is vastly improved to work efficiently on both old to new hardware. Windows has always been meant to be installed as a clean install, and has always been recommended to do so. Technically, you can upgrade to a new version of Windows and not experience issues, however it requires tens of hours to do so, as you would need to manually comb the entire OS for the sys and dll files for previously installed system critical drivers. In comparison, it takes ~4 hours to perform a clean install properly and reinstall all drivers and software.

    • It really comes down to a simple question: Would an end user rather spend ~4 hours to do an install the right way, or would they rather do it the easy way and then spend hours troubleshooting the resulting problems they're almost guaranteed to have.
      • In other words, it's simply far more efficient, and less of a headache, to reinstall Windows and do it properly.


    I understand your stance but would take issue with 'they assume end users will take the 15 - 30 minutes to research how to install an OS.' Many of my fellow computer users will not do so given Microsoft simply downloading an 'Upgrade to W10 icon' and making it look simple. Computer experts will research this but the general user is unlikely to.

    You say 'Windows has always been meant to be installed as a clean install'. Again not suggested to me by Microsoft, they simply gave me an upgrade icon and gave the impression all would be well.

    Finally I do not agree that it would be different if Microsoft were charging for the upgrade. At least I hope not otherwise they are guilty of taking the view that as it is free they do not have to worry if there are issues.

    Anyway I do appreciate your help and will stick with it as I do not like to be beaten by these pesky computers!!!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       09 Feb 2016 #387

    Spig10 said: View Post
    I understand your stance but would take issue with 'they assume end users will take the 15 - 30 minutes to research how to install an OS.' Many of my fellow computer users will not do so given Microsoft simply downloading an 'Upgrade to W10 icon' and making it look simple. Computer experts will research this but the general user is unlikely to.

    You say 'Windows has always been meant to be installed as a clean install'. Again not suggested to me by Microsoft, they simply gave me an upgrade icon and gave the impression all would be well.

    Finally I do not agree that it would be different if Microsoft were charging for the upgrade. At least I hope not otherwise they are guilty of taking the view that as it is free they do not have to worry if there are issues.

    Anyway I do appreciate your help and will stick with it as I do not like to be beaten by these pesky computers!!!
    I think there's a misconception, or misunderstanding, many users have about the Windows 10 upgrade:

    • The only reason users are being asked to upgrade to Windows 10 is so their motherboard's hardware ID can be registered, thereby allowing the end user to receive their free upgrade. This is literally the only reason why one must upgrade first, and why a clean install cannot be performed until after the device has been successfully upgraded to Windows 10 and shows activated in Settings.

    Windows has never been meant to be upgraded, except over a decade ago when their were two versions of Windows you could buy, an upgrade version and a full retail version (this was phased out with Vista IIRC). The problem with an upgrade isn't the upgrade itself or even Windows... the problem arises out of the fact the previous Windows versions' drivers are still installed and copied over to the Win directory of the new install. This is the reason for 90%+ of the issues experienced with Windows 10: drivers from the previous install.

    Is Microsoft to blame for poor communication, something they continue to this day to suffer from, absolutely... however that doesn't absolve the end user from their own personal responsibility to take 15 - 30 minutes on Google to discover the proper way to install an OS.

    I do understand most are not power users, however one can find the proper way to install Windows by simply googling "proper way to install windows 10". For some unknown reason, most refuse to do so, which is truly baffling... albeit it definitely doesn't help when the blind repeatedly try to lead the blind down their own path of misunderstandings and misconceptions. The best advice is this:

    • Don't depend on Microsoft to change their communication skills toward end users, especially those who are not power users.
      • You'll be waiting a long time if you choose to do so.
    • If in doubt, google it
      • ​Ensure prior to following advice, fact check it on another forum or how to guide.
      • If still unsure, ask; and when asking, please be specific, stating why you're not sure or do not understand something. This ensures you'll be more likely to get a reply, especially from power users.
    • Remember, it's your PC, not someone else's
      • If you would rather not to have to spend hours down the road troubleshooting, wait... wait until you have a thorough understanding prior to moving forward. It'll be worth it in the end and save yourself plenty of headaches, frustration, and wasted time.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 70
    Window 10 Home
       09 Feb 2016 #388

    You are absolutely correct I did not do a clean install, got lazy. I have a long standing policy of always doing a clean install of a new OS with hard copies. In all of the decades I have been messing with computers for work and pleasure this is one thing I have learned. I also never, ever, clone boot drives. At the time I first loaded Windows10 online the voice of experience told me I was making a mistake. I should have listened. One thing about it with problems like I am having I am learning the inner workings of this OS. You don't learn if you don't burn. Will purchase a full copy of Windows 10 Pro on flash drive and install it into a Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD. Problem solved.

    Been playing with OS-X El Capitan, Lord is that a sweet OS. The siren call of Apple is in my head.....
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 70
    Window 10 Home
       09 Feb 2016 #389

    The way I see it. With a brand new operating system which comes out every so many years why not start fresh. Mass storage so cheap, or cloud storage it is easy to keep copies of stuff you want to save. Blow out the boot drive, or purchase a new one, and start all over consider it an exorcism. I am sure paying the price for not doing this, and I know better.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       09 Feb 2016 #390

    transmaster said: View Post
    You are absolutely correct I did not do a clean install, got lazy. I have a long standing policy of always doing a clean install of a new OS with hard copies. In all of the decades I have been messing with computers for work and pleasure this is one thing I have learned. I also never, ever, clone boot drives. At the time I first loaded Windows10 online the voice of experience told me I was making a mistake. I should have listened. One thing about it with problems like I am having I am learning the inner workings of this OS. You don't learn if you don't burn. Will purchase a full copy of Windows 10 Pro on flash drive and install it into a Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD. Problem solved.

    Been playing with OS-X El Capitan, Lord is that a sweet OS. The siren call of Apple is in my head.....
    You don't have to purchase Windows 10 if you had a legitimate key for Windows 7/8. You can download the ISO via the Windows 10 media creation tool, which will also create a bootable usb if you select to do so. As long as you upgrade first and verify Windows 10 shows activated in Settings, you can perform a clean install.

    You can try the steps I listed earlier, as they may work. There are people who have upgraded to Windows 10 and are running the upgrade without issue, albeit I've only found two who have successfully done so, and I believe both were utilizing new[er] hardware. I'm not sure how you're using the device as an AV Center, however if you were previously utilizing media center and liked it, you'll need to stick to either 7 or 8.1 since media center was retired with Windows 10...albeit with Windows apps now seamlessly built into the OS, I think AV/HT PCs benefit more from Windows 10 (or you could get the best of both worlds and use the free edition of VMware to run Windows 10 in one VM and *nix OS/FreeNAS/Android in another VM
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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