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  1. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       29 Nov 2015 #221

    mouthpiec said: View Post
    today had some free time, downloaded a new ISO and installed again ... maybe the ISO I downloaded when Win10 was out was had something wrong.
    Possible, but highly unlikely. Did you perform the steps I laid out above?

    If you still decide to go through with a reinstall, which is unnecessary at this point if you didn't perform the steps above, and are concerned that the original iso was corrupted, you can download a program from SourceForge that can verify the file hashes. If you upgraded via Windows update and did not perform a clean install, Windows Update auto verifies the hashes of all downloaded updates and upgrades prior to install.

    • If you did not clean install Windows 10 after you upgraded, it's recommended to do so. Majority of users having issues with Windows 10 have nothing to do with the OS itself, but the fact they didn't clean install.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
       29 Nov 2015 #222

    JW0914 said: View Post
    Possible, but highly unlikely. Did you perform the steps I laid out above?

    If you still decide to go through with a reinstall, which is unnecessary at this point if you didn't perform the steps above, and are concerned that the original iso was corrupted, you can download a program from SourceForge that can verify the file hashes. If you upgraded via Windows update and did not perform a clean install, Windows Update auto verifies the hashes of all downloaded updates and upgrades prior to install.

    • If you did not clean install Windows 10 after you upgraded, it's recommended to do so. Majority of users having issues with Windows 10 have nothing to do with the OS itself, but the fact they didn't clean install.
    tried the above but I was getting errors that some files required to be replaced and it was not possible [source not found].
    re-install was made and so far it looks good ... I will keep it for a week (usually the issue re-occurs after 1 day)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       29 Nov 2015 #223

    mouthpiec said: View Post
    tried the above but I was getting errors that some files required to be replaced and it was not possible [source not found].
    re-install was made and so far it looks good ... I will keep it for a week (usually the issue re-occurs after 1 day)
    If you receive that type of error again, it's easy to fix with DISM. The command would be one of the following, depending on the source you choose to use:

    dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth /source:wim:e:\sources\install.wim

    • Install.wim must be for the version of Windows you have installed

    dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth /source:esd:e:\sources\install.esd

    • Install.esd must be for the version of Windows you have installed

    dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth /source:f:\mount\windows

    • You can mount the wim backup of your system drive (or another person's backup) and use it to repair the WinSxS component store

    If you performed a clean install, and not a repair install (upgrading to the same version of Windows you have installed), you must install your system critical drivers in a specific order priorto running WIndows Update or installing any software. The sequence below for the first six must be followed as specified, rebooting following every install:

    1. CPU Chipset Drivers
      • Pull from OEM's support site, must be installed regardless of what OS they were originally intended for

    2. IMEI drivers
      • Pull from OEM's support site, must be installed regardless of what OS they were originally intended for

    3. Intel RST drivers (if you utilize RAID or your Intel CPU has Integrated Graphics)
      • Pull from manufacturer's [Intel] website

    4. Any other CPU related drivers, such as thermal management
      • Pull from manufacturer's [Intel] website

    5. CPU Integrated Graphics drivers
      • Pull from manufacturer's [Intel] website

    6. GPU Discrete Graphics drivers
      • Pull from manufacturer's [Nvidia, AMD, etc] website

    7. Audio drivers
      • Pull from manufacturer's website, relying on OEM's [Dell, HP, etc] support page drivers only if the component manufacturer doesn't offer updated ones.

    8. LAN drivers
      • Pull from component manufacturer's [Intel] website

    9. WiFi drivers
      • Pull from component manufacturer's [Intel] website

    10. BT drivers
      • Pull from component manufacturer's [Intel] website

    11. Input drivers (touchpad/webcam if a laptop, etc.)
      • Pull from manufacturer's website, relying on OEM's [Dell, HP, etc] support page drivers only if the component manufacturer doesn't offer updated ones.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
       29 Nov 2015 #224

    but why all these complications to install windows? IMO this is a big step back
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       29 Nov 2015 #225

    mouthpiec said: View Post
    but why all these complications to install windows? IMO this is a big step back
    These aren't complications... these steps are how windows has always been meant to be installed, going as far back as at least Windows 98 (more likely further back than that). Most users never bother to clean install due to being uninformed/misinformed, therefore never learning how a clean install must be performed.

    • Windows is an OS
      • To communicate properly with hardware, the OS must have drivers (essentially software that interfaces between the OS and the hardware components)
      • Not installing drivers first, especially chipset drivers, will guarantee you experience wonkiness at some point, and since chipset drivers must be installed first prior to performing any other action, once you install other drivers and/or Windows Update, you've just shot yourself in the foot since you will need to perform a second clean install in order to install the chipset drivers and have the system accept and utilize them accordingly.
        • Chipset drivers directly interface the OS and other hardware components with the CPU
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
       29 Nov 2015 #226

    JW0914 said: View Post
    These aren't complications... these steps are how windows has always been meant to be installed, going as far back as at least Windows 98 (more likely further back than that). Most users never bother to clean install due to being uninformed/misinformed, therefore never learning how a clean install must be performed.
    I cleaned installed several PCs, with Win 8, 7 and XP and never had a glitch. For the time being Win 10 is a total mess (I always did a clean install). But having said that the install done today look good, till now no hickups (touch wood)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       29 Nov 2015 #227

    mouthpiec said: View Post
    I cleaned installed several PCs, with Win 8, 7 and XP and never had a glitch. For the time being Win 10 is a total mess (I always did a clean install). But having said that the install done today look good, till now no hickups (touch wood)
    You can do it your way, it's your PC... but the way you've been doing it is wrong (not wrong in a sense of differing opinions, but literally the wrong way to do what you're doing). Don't take my word for it, spend 15 minutes on Google.

    What you're doing is akin to mechanics utilizing brake cleaner on drive belt pulleys because they've always done it that way... however brake cleaner damages rubber (which the belts are made of), in combination with causing it to age prematurely.

    If you're going to post in a forum and ignore the proper, correct instructions on how to do something, why bother posting in a forum at all?
    • This isn't mathematics, where there's multiple ways to get to the correct solution or variable... drivers must be installed prior to installing any additional software or updates, with reboots in between each install. There is no other way of doing this correctly.

    You state: "I cleaned installed several PCs, with Win 8, 7 and XP and never had a glitch."

    What exactly do you consider a glitch? Something happening within the GUI? You've probably never bothered to look in the event logs. With the chipset drivers especially, failing to install them first (or not at all in your case) will cause PC performance issues, whether you see them or not in the GUI. Bottom line, it's your PC... do what you want; but please don't post in forums to get help when you have an issue if you're going to take your own misinformation over what the facts are.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
       29 Nov 2015 #228

    I agree with you ... but then the adverts that Win is a 1 click install OS are misleading.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
       29 Nov 2015 #229

    for example why windows updates run before you login to windows if one need to install the Chipset drivers first?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 181
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       29 Nov 2015 #230

    mouthpiec said: View Post
    for example why windows updates run before you login to windows if one need to install the Chipset drivers first?
    You're confusing two different types of installs, upgrades and clean installs.
    • Upgrades upgrade the OS, copying a substantial amount of data from the previous OS's Windows directory to the Windows directory of the new OS. This in and of itself is the cause of majority of users' issues since Windows 7/8 drivers are copied over to the new install's Windows directory and system critical drivers (anything attached to, or integrated into, the motherboard) for Windows 7/8 are not compatible with Windows 10.
    • Clean installs should be performed on a formatted partition, to prevent and rule out potential issues, at which point the user must perform all the steps previously spoken about (which the OEM did for the end user prior to them receiving their PC)

    Windows 10, like any OS version before it, will run when an upgrade is performed, however you are guaranteed to have issues if you stick with the upgrade and do not clean install. Normally, you'd buy the new Windows OS and clean install, never bothering to upgrade; however, because Microsoft is offering Windows 10 free for the first year to valid license holders of previous OS versions, the device must be upgraded first to register the hardware ID of their device (pulled from the motherboard) within Microsoft's activation servers (this keeps you activated without ever having to enter a product key if you ever have to reinstall windows). Once an end user sees the "Windows is activated" under Settings, they should then perform a clean install.

    With this being said, it is not Microsoft's responsibility to ensure users know this, however Microsoft has told users what must be done in order to clean install (mentioned above). It is also not Microsoft's job to ensure an end user is not running incompatible drivers or software. It is not their job to ensure or remind end users system critical drivers for a previous OS will not work on Windows 10, or to uninstall internet security software prior to upgrading, or to verify internet security software being installed is compatible with Windows 10. All of these things are the responsibility of the end user.

    In reference to your question I quoted, Windows Update runs during the install for a number of reasons, but not necessarily to install updates. You generally only see this if you choose the upgrade option. I can't remember if it shows while within WinPE during a clean install, however if it does, it's likely it's verifying hashes or sending anonymous data about the install (i.e. errors, hash mismatches, etc.). If you used the media creation tool to download an ISO, it already has all current updates incorporated into it from the previous week's update release. These updates have been injected into the install.wim/install.esd and the process by which they're applied is entirely different than updates run from an installer from within Windows Updates.

    • The one exception being the current ISO from Media Creation Tools may not be build 1511. 1511 was pulled almost immediately after being released to the public because certain code allowed for third party app developers to garnish far more personal information than they should have had access to. 1511, if not already pushed out again, should be pushed back out shortly in the coming days (this only affects ISOs from the Media Creation Tool, as you can download 1511 via Windows Update).
    Last edited by JW0914; 29 Nov 2015 at 11:17.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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